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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I seem to recall some bloke in the Middle East mentioned this.
So, anyone ever lied about anything? Ever concealed anything about his identity? Ever done anything they are ashamed of and kept quiet about it? Ever said "Gay? Me? No way!"? Ever used homophobia to hide behind in case you were outed?
Ever told the teensiest lie at all about yourself?
Because I am finding it hard to understand the self righteousness of those who condemn others who cannot, for reasons of their own, come clean about who they are.
This is a rant. It's a full on rant. It's addressed to those who have not read or not embraced the heading of this board. You have a lot to learn about life if you have no charity. In so many ways thank heavens you are gay.
Do you have any idea how close you are to embracing philosophies like "God hates fags"?
[Updated on: Sun, 18 February 2007 20:43]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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For the most part you are right Timmy, but there is a big diff in a small lie, or a lie to help protect your self from thos who may cuz harm.
But to lie about who you are is a totaly diff thing, and I am not talking about say I am not gay, or I hate gays. What I am talking about is saying that you are someone else like you are 17 when you 30. Or when you start a relationship with someone to make your self feel good with no intition of ever meeting some one.
Jay
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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Please, Timmy - Let him who…
It grates horribly.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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I agree with you absolutely, Jason. I've tried writing an answer to this thread a couple of times and I still haven't found a better way of putting it.
David
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In the past week, I've met a number of new people on a amateur theatre thing I've helping out on. As it happens, three of them are members of an on-line gay social group which has forums that I hang round quite a lot, two of them being fairly regular posters. It took me a while to tie up the "real people" with the "on-line ID's", and I was surprised at quite how differently people can come across, even when there is very clearly no intention to mislead. Of course, the same may well be true of me (though I hope it isn't unduly so).
And then there are people who intentionally misrepresent themselves, and dig themselves into a deeper hole as they are questioned. There can be all kinds of (what feel like) very good reasons for this - I've mentioned pre-operative transsexuals claiming their 'real' gender rather than 'current physical state' as an obvious example in previous posts on this subject.
I may also say that a very close friend of mine (male, then in his late 20s) had a period in his life when he portrayed himself online as a 16-y-old girl, in chatrooms designed for such. It was - I think - to do with him finally coming to terms with adolescence and sexuality issues. There was, I stress, absolutley no intention of anything improper (no grooming or anything): nevertheless, I think that some of the friendships he formed during that short period were very unfair on others, and that it was this realisation that eventually led him to give up the pretence. I do know that he feels both bad and embarrassed about the whole thing - to much so to talk about it to me other than in throwaway comments spaced over many months.
I think there's a slippery slope where an apparently innocuous initial deliberate misrepresentation can snowball, and build up into a web of mistruth and part-truth. This can (usually) end up hurting other people ... but such hurt is caused by initial thoughtlessness not malice. I do not for a moment deny quite how deeply it can hurt (I have escaped lightly, with the curious experience of having exchanged several messages with a couple of guys on another forum, only to subsequently discover that they were the same person - who also had eleven other aliases on the site - and some of his aliases used to argue with each other on the threads...). Of course it hurts innocent people - but I can certainly understand how it happens, and I don't think that people who slide down the slippery slope are necessarily bad people. The slope is very steep, and very slippery ...
People who knowingly pretend to be what they are not, with the specific intention of grooming youngsters for sex, or deceiving people out of money, or other illegal acts, are an entirely different question, and it should go without saying that I have no sympathy whatsoever for their actions.
edited for typos
[Updated on: Sun, 18 February 2007 22:20]
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Ok, let him who grates horribly......
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Unless you're talking about the Star Trek DS9 episode (Season 5 episode 7), in which case "Let he who ..." is correct.
No, I'm not a trekkie - but my sort-of-ex was !
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Nigel wrote:
Please, Timmy - Let him who…
OK. Resident pedant rushes into the fray.
The original text (according to the King James version) is "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her".
The text that Timmy used seems to be very reminsicent of an arioso passage in Benjamin Britten's opera "Peter Grimes" (though, for reasons known to him and me, I cannot credit this  ). The words are by Montagu Slater:
Let her among you without fault cast the first stone,
And let the Pharisees and Sadducees give way to none.
But whosoever feels his heart humbled so deep
There is no corner he can hide, even in sleep,
Will have no trouble to find out how a poor teacher,
Widowed and lonely finds delight in should'ring care.
[Resident pedant exits hurriedly to avoid being pelted with stones.]
J F R
[Updated on: Mon, 19 February 2007 15:21]
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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At the risk of hijacking the thread we suffer from the "Between you and I" Brigade who think it is both correct and posh to say that because the Queen reportedly says "My husband and I…" which of course is correct when it is the subheject of the sentence. Naturally "The President welcomed my husband and me" is right in that context with the accusative pronoun for the direct object. [Would you say "The President welcomed I"?]
Similarly "Let him who…" because 'him' is the direct object of the verb 'to let'. Also prepositions always take the oblique case, never the nominative, therefore a gift for you and me. [A gift for I ?]
I am a linguist by trade and therefore incorrect use of cases, particularly when combined with pretentiousness upsets my linguistic sensibilities.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Hey, Nigel! I didn't write the King James Version, I just quoted it.
Hugs,
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Perhaps Tim could install a gramatical checking program? Perhaps spell check as well? Maybe with a buffet and several tasty drinks just to top everything off..... oh HELL... he can throw in a day at the beach too.....
in for a penny.....in for a pound
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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ah. But the snippet "he who is blameless" was both the object of "Let" and the subject of "Cast". This is, surely, a more complex construct than a simple nominative/accusative?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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A day at the beach sounds good.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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>He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.<
(John 8:7)
I think that there could be an argument for "Him that…", namely that it is in apposition, but as the first part states the proposition (subject?) it has been put in the nominative. That point is interesting, but the 'let-him' him must be in the accusative.
Hugs
N
[Updated on: Mon, 19 February 2007 15:36]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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English can be cumbersome. "Let him hit her" is fine, of course. Well, unless he goes and does it! The awkwardness is the "Who is without sin" portion, and that caused my confusion. Damn. I am pedantic over grammar!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Jay wrote:
Or when you start a relationship with someone to make your self feel good with no intition of ever meeting some one.
Bingo....
[Updated on: Tue, 20 February 2007 05:19]
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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