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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I know I have, have you?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Never -so far as I remember.
I was lucky. The Sexual Offences Bill was going through the UK parliament in 1967when I was 12 and - at least in the freethinking atmosphere of the university town of Oxford where I grew up - it was "respectable" to take a liberal view that what people do in the privacy of bedrooms was entirely their own business. Once my views on that were known at school, no-one actually seemed to think that I might have a personal interest in the subject ... people just knew that I was a woolly liberal on social issues and that was that.
And once I'd left school, it was generally clear that I took a very permissive line on all the social questions of the day - sex, religion, recreational psychedelics, etc, so people tended not to make homophobic remarks if I was around for fear of being bored to tears by my patient explanations about acceptance of difference and following one's own path.
Of course, I "came out" at 24 - a rather younger age than most of my contemporaries - so for most of my life I've been entirely free to challenge homophobia whenever I encounter it by reference to my own experiences ...
As I said, I've been lucky.
[Updated on: Mon, 19 February 2007 21:56]
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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I know that I denied being gay quite a few times as a teenager* and I remember that I did, during a couple of conversations at the age of 13, complain about certain sexual practices because I thought they were pretty unpleasant. I don't think either was homophobia: the first stemmed from fear of being outed (which, incidentally, I found out eventually to be groundless) and the second -- well, the second I still have problems with, because I had OCD and I'm still finicky about hygiene. I understand that I am not alone among gay men for feeling like that. I do feel guilty for making those complaints nine years ago, though, because it's none of my business what consenting adults get up to together, and it did lead one person to think I was homophobic. I have since apologised to him.
Aside from those things, I do not think I have ever joined in with homophobia, largely because I have never experienced enough of it to feel I either had to intervene or to join in. At prep school people were too naive (while I don't like it, I don't think the standard insult "You're so gay!" counts as homophobia, honestly) and at public school they were on the whole mature enough not to care about other people's sexualities.
I do remember, when I was 13, one senior man (17/18 year-old) who was slightly predatory in his attentions to the 13/14 year-olds (never me), and I voiced my disapproval of that. But it wasn't the attraction that bothered me so much as the behaviour, of which I still disapprove. (I managed to make it through school without running around after the juniors all the time!)
However, I know my upbringing was very different from Timmy's (the institutions were vaguely similar, but it was a very different era) and I honestly can't say what my behaviour would have been like if I had been raised in a hostile environment.
David
*Incidentally, I'm still not happy with the label "gay" and I think it's more likely that I'm bisexual-tending-towards-gay. But just saying "gay" is simpler and for a few years now I have admitted it to anyone who has asked (not that many, actually).
[Updated on: Mon, 19 February 2007 22:22] |
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It hurt to tick the "Yes" box but I knew it was really the only answer I could tick. I'm rather ashamed and I think that I only did it when I was younger (early early teens). I was actually homophobic before I came to the realization that I was gay. Well, accepted the fact rather. I mean
In High School however I was the token liberal at my school and so, through that role, I was more able to defend homosexual positions without fear of outing myself. I was shy in doing so at first however so often times when the point came up in conversation, I just didn't say anything.
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
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i know, to my everlasting shame, that i did.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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I voted "yes" even though I honestly cannot recall ever having done so. But growing up where and when I did I must have done so. Since reaching the so-called "years of discretion" I am positive that I have never done so. But, many a time and oft I have given evasive responses etc.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Due to the wording of the poll I ticked "No". To me, if you don't realise you are gay or like guys "like that" then you aren't really in the closet. In the closet is the stage during which you realise that at least to a small degree you are attracted towards other guys, but are unwilling to let it be known by others. I was only ever homophobic before I realised I was gay. If I decide not to let someone know I'm gay then I'm just left wing enough to justify being against homophobia, much like others here.
[Updated on: Tue, 20 February 2007 05:11]
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Saben wrote:
> ...To me, if you don't realise you are gay or like guys "like that" then you aren't really in the closet. In the closet is the stage during which you realise that at least to a small degree you are attracted towards other guys, but are unwilling to let it be known by others ...
That's an interesting point Saben. I'd agree with you, at least for people who are making a journey from (self-)denial to acceptance of being gay in both an emotional and physical sense.
I think it's very different for men who have sex with men (MSM), but regard it as purely a physical act without any emotional element - such people often don't see themselves as "gay", and can be pretty intolerant of those who do self-identify as "gay".
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Yeah, that kind of denial I'd still classify as being in the closet. When I was 14, though, I was homophobic and too naive about my sexuality to even really be in the closet. I was in the closet probably from 16-17 when I realised I was probably gay, but wasn't very sure of it. Now I'm out to anyone important. To some people that initial self-denial can last a long time. Often people transition from denial to closeted during their teen years, but for some it can take even longer. Others it can be during the pre-teen years.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The thought of it repulses me.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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