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Let's say that I am in my 20's (which I am NOT) and rather gauche in social situations (which I am). Let's say that I find someone I meet casually very attractive. How do I let him know that this is what I feel if he doesn't even notice me?
In general, what advice can you give me for making others aware that I am 'available' for friendship and companionship, when I suffer from a terrible shyness in such situations (which I certainly do).
Teach me, please.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Above all just be your self, I’m not sure about the shyness thing I’m rather gregarious. I don’t go into any situation with expectation, rather than trying to approach someone I may see and find attractive one on one right off the bat, I’ll wait till there is a gaggle and join in the conversation and as opportunity avails it’s self I’ll try for one on one to test the waters to see if we have anything in common. If you click you click, if ya don’t ya don’t.
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think the best advice I have is to be honest about it. I know that is not easy advice, but people worth being attracted to tend to understand when we speak of ourselves with honesty
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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There's no point trying to be anything you're not - that's always doomed to failure in the long run. But often people who feel socially awkward (as I did, for most of my life) adopt body language that says "go away and leave me alone - I'm not comfortable and wish you weren't here". This looks very closed - arms wrapped round themselves, slightly hunched up ... whatever. It takes practice, but adopting an open body position gives the impression of approachability and comfort ...
Mimicing someone else's posture signals strong liking or attraction or agreement - it's one of the unconscious signals people use (pupil dilation is another - hence dim lighting being "seductive") - but is definitely to be used with discretion!
Ask him questions about himself - get him onto his favourite subject and just keep him going with encouraging nods and noises. Not only does it give an excuse to keep a lot of eye contact, but also he'll think you're fascinating - so when you say "I've enjoyed chatting - lets meet soon" there's a good chance of a favourable reaction.
But the best thing of all is just practice in meeting people - get a job like barman or receptionist, even part-time, and practice on people you're unlikely ever to see again. It doesn't stop meeting people being any less scary, it doesn't make you feel better, but it does mean you gradually acquire a social veneer so other people don't immediately recognise that's how you feel underneath. At least, that's how it worked for me!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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I am guessing that it's a case of being oneself, but also making sure that (as NW says) one is open and friendly and receptive, and at the right place at the right moment. I asked JFR about this myself, so I'm not able to give much further advice!
If one doesn't know if a person is gay or not (and does not even suspect one way or the other), how can one find out without hampering a professional relationship? I have established quite a few professional friendships in the film industry, but I have never even got near the question of whether any of them could or could not be gay (because, generally, it's irrelevant to the project at hand). Statistically it's unlikely that any particular person is, but I know for a fact that I have ignored several people in the past who have subsequently turned out to be gay, because I assumed and never asked.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Deeej wrote:
> I am guessing that it's a case of being oneself, but also making sure that (as NW says) one is open and friendly and receptive, and at the right place at the right moment. I asked JFR about this myself, so I'm not able to give much further advice!
>
> If one doesn't know if a person is gay or not (and does not even suspect one way or the other), how can one find out without hampering a professional relationship? I have established quite a few professional friendships in the film industry, but I have never even got near the question of whether any of them could or could not be gay (because, generally, it's irrelevant to the project at hand). Statistically it's unlikely that any particular person is, but I know for a fact that I have ignored several people in the past who have subsequently turned out to be gay, because I assumed and never asked.
>
> David
As long as a person continually searches for the "statistical probability" of not finding any other gay contemporaries, friends, paramores, lovers, partners and so on there is every chance that they will be their own prophetic self fulfilling enemy.
The only way to think about finding friends is to stop thinking about it and get on to the business of finding them.
Definately NOT thinking of ways to not find them.
If you can be subtle, there are ways to advertise being gay without actually screaming it off the rooftops.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc said,
>As long as a person continually searches for the "statistical probability" of not finding any other gay contemporaries, friends, paramores, lovers, partners and so on there is every chance that they will be their own prophetic self fulfilling enemy.
Absolutely.
>If you can be subtle, there are ways to advertise being gay without actually screaming it off the rooftops.
Assume I'm a complete idiot. What might some of those be?
David
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>But the best thing of all is just practice in meeting people - get a job like barman or receptionist, even part-time, and practice on people you're unlikely ever to see again. It doesn't stop meeting people being any less scary, it doesn't make you feel better, but it does mean you gradually acquire a social veneer so other people don't immediately recognise that's how you feel underneath. At least, that's how it worked for me!
I really like this advice.
thanks
david
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
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>>If you can be subtle, there are ways to advertise being gay without actually screaming it off the rooftops.
>Assume I'm a complete idiot. What might some of those be?
I am also curious although I wouldn't mind knowing some less subtle ways as well.
I have the problem wherein people assume that I'm straight to the point that many don't believe me at first when I tell them. It seems obviuos to those that have known for a while though.
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
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I know one thing Deeej, you are in the best of worlds as far as tolerance go. Folks in the arts whether student or professional tend to be pretty open minded about alternative anything, with sexuality being at if not near the top of the list.
I don’t look or act particularly gay but I can tell you once I’ve struck up a friendship, some will figure it out with out me having to say a word. I do know that in some ways just being supportive of my own sexuality and others alternative sexuality can go a long way to help find out where other people stand. I call all this fishing, use the bait appropriate to what you want to catch. There really is a great deal you can do in a subtle way that will always give you the opportunity to keep your cover until you find where they might stand.
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ok.... I was hoping you'd ask....
Think Jewelry........
A nice ring with stones in the gay colors.......
A subtle pendant on a chain....
When looking for subtle jewelry it is better to think "classy" rather than "gauche"........
These are things people nitice when they are looking to meet someone new.
If you are a tiny bit bold you could place a rainbow decal on your rear window of your car.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Great ideas Marc. I'd be too stupid to think of jewelry as an indicator, but purple gemstones aren't something many straight guys go for (though at my uni there probably would be a couple :S)
A rainbow flag sticker on the back of your car is a brilliant idea, though. I wish I had a car!
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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these are some of the pendants... most gan be purchased for about $20.00 US
They are small, yet for those that are inclined to look they are a clear sign of someone who is gay.
[Updated on: Sat, 03 March 2007 02:35]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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And here are some rings........
These are very subtle as you can turn the stones away if you wish to pass on the person.......
All of these are under $30.00 US
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The thing about these is that the do two things:- Express confidence in one's self
- Avoid those awful hankie or key codes that so few people actually understand
They also look cute
[Updated on: Sat, 03 March 2007 08:44]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It is hand carved quartz crystal, held in place by a three fingered hand made from sterling silver....
Custom made for mois.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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ProfZodiac
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Likes it here |
Location: United States
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 115
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None of this is subtle, by my standards. I'm viewing subtle as "I'm not making a point of wearing anything that's a 100% indicator of being gay, but based on what I'm wearing, I'm inviting questions that might eventually lead to it."
Just dress well. I don't know what your dressing skills are, since they can obviously run the gamut among folks, but don't be lazy about it. Be put together.
For me, anyway, I go to parties that tend to have a liberal crowd anyway. (At least until July, when I can legally go into the gay sports bar in the city.) I'm great at talking to people at parties, so this doesn't faze me at all. I'll chat with someone for a while, and if I'm interested, I might ask them at some point during the night, "alright man, I gotta ask. Is there any chance you're gay?" I word it something like that because it:
1. Indicates that the question is somewhat in passing; I'm not going to make it a focus.
2. Keeps some of the pressure on me, it's indicative that I might be interested if he answers in the affirmative.
It's not a bad tactic. If they say no, then it's as simple as "damn. Well, that's my luck, isn't it?" and move on. If they say yes, ask them if they might want to get some coffee sometime.
Being a slick individual is only partly inherent. It's partly learned and partly evident through other traits.
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It's not like you ever make it to that coffee date! 
I am still mad at you tho.
J
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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All very true..... As it applies to you and your situation.....
Unfortunatly not all people have the opportunity to be invited to parties.
Not all have the resources to "be put together"....
and lastly, not all have the social skills to be able to comfortably mingle.
Some people have a great deal of trouble "breaking the ice" or opening a conversation.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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All good points, Marc
One of the things I used to find helpful was to have a book on the go. Not necessarily to be reading it in the lunchroom or canteen or wherever - that kinda defeats the point of talking to people. But having a book around, carrying it (or, for car-owners, I guess leaving lying around in the car) gives an obvious starting-point if anyone wants to strike up a conversation - and as a lot of the books I read in my youth were "gay classics" it was also useful in showing that I was not anti-gay.
I have no idea what kind of books would be appropriate nowadays (back then it was books like "Giovanni's Room") - possibly books by Armistead Maupin, Alan Holinghurst, Ethan Mordden, etc?
I still read a lot, but on train journeys and stuff it's usually magazines. I've had many conversations that have struck up when people see that the mags I've bought to read on the train are a curious mix of New Scientist, The Economist, and Attitude (a gay youth lifestyle magazine)! But I wasn't confident enough to be that "obvious" when I was younger.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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i'd agree... i really like that jewellery, and in some circumstances i'd wear it myself... but its not subtle at all... just discrete.
personally, i wear a hand carved wooden bracelet thats painted in rainbow colours that i picked up at B'ham pride 1 year... slightly better, because the colours are muted
i also have one of those webbing rainbow belts off ebay for a mere £3. cheap cheesy, somewhat camp, but doesn't scream gay simply coz straight people (believe it or not) do wear it.
ever watch Queer as Folk (UK)?
a red ribbon campaign pin, looks perfect on a suit. not indicative of being gay, but most of the people who wear them tend to be. you can get one from the National Aids Shop online store for £1.50
i also suffer from the straight presumption. i don't tend to give any overt physical indication, and in some situations it does pay to advertise, so to speak. It depends how overt you want to be about saying it. The rings/pendants marc showed are really nice...
Saben... bout the car, i know the feeling...
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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