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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I have heard something that has some logic, but for which I cannot find a reference. I am presenting what I have heard here for research. I do not present it as anything other than "something that I have heard" and it therefore has no basis, until that basis be found, as an authenticated fact. All I can say is that it is logical and is unlikely. In a different culture it would be logical and likely, but this culture is "God Fearing America"
So, here we go:
The Mormon faith (and yes, I know this is a nickname) used to espouse multiple wives per man. This meant that the number of available women was much lower than in monogamous societies, but the birth rate of males and females produced a broadly equal population of girls and boys.
Boys, while not encouraged to be homosexual, found male/male juvenile relationships were not frowned on, simply because the boys had no other sexual outlet.
When the US Internal Revenue Service made sure that the multiple wife scenario was stamped out, the tacit acceptance of male/male relationships for young Mormon men became frowned upon because women were now available in the right proportions, but the "frowning upon" took a couple of generations to become established.
Homosexuality is a sin in the Mormon church.
I have précised what I have heard. On the one hand it is logical and believable. On the other hand it is unlikely, given the puritan climate in the USA. And yet multiple wives is against puritanism, too.
I have not put this here to attack a faith. I am interested instead to find out of there is any authoritative documentation for or against this thinking.
[Updated on: Tue, 10 April 2007 11:21]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Like most other faiths..... documentation regarding a dark incident or past is more often than not deleted from existance in order to protect the integrity of the church.
That and the more than likely fact that boys messing around was more than likely carried out behind the barn and in private..... the messing around was messing around..... just like EVERY other faith has boys messing around....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I tend to agree with Marc that you won't find any, or little evidence of such a thing.
There is some literature about Mormon polygamy from a Mormon point of view, though they try to downplay it as much as possible.
From a doctrine point of view it is seen as "okay", even in the current Mormon church, the only reason it is no longer practiced is because "the laws of man" were causing the "true Church" to be persecuted. It was a "divine doctrine" that fallible humans of the time were unready to accept, but in the hereafter, women without husbands will be allowed to marry a man already with a wife.
The church hasn't tried 100% to hide their polygamous background, just justify it through Mormon logic.
To be honest I think boys playing with boys was probably no more or less widespread than in most other social spheres at the time. And it was ignored in a like kind.
I will be interested to hear what you find out, Timmy. But my inclination is to think that it really wasn't much more or less prolific than it is now in the Mormon church, which is probably on par with the rest of society.
If it did happen, I wish I would have been a Mormon teenager 150 years ago instead of 5!
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Timmy, BYU did a study of homosexuality amoung Mormons. If I remember the report correctly, the incidence of Gays in the Mormon church was 30% above the national average. They also discovered a large percentage of boys returning from pilgramage, gay, to be abnormally high. I am trying my best to find this report and post it for you, but I read it some time ago. I know it made referance to the stand by the Mormon Church as one of the causes of the increase.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Roger said,
>If I remember the report correctly, the incidence of Gays in the Mormon church was 30% above the national average. They also discovered a large percentage of boys returning from pilgramage, gay, to be abnormally high.
How was that measured? By admission -- i.e. the number of people admitting to being gay was 30% above the national average?
I would have thought it was unlikely to be an increase in actual homosexuality (which is almost impossible to measure, anyway), as AFAIK lifestyles have never been shown to increase the likelihood of a particular inclination.
I would not deny that particular environments lead to greater levels of openness, which means that more people are likely to experiment with members of the same sex (even if they are basically straight) or come out (admit to being gay).
David
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David, Im not exactly sure of the percentages, but it was a study done by BYU. Their own university. Im still trying to find that synopsis of that report. Old things just get tucked away.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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I had no interest in that religion when I was younger, and so I would never have heard about that particular thing, but I don't believe that was ever the case with that religion. I think they were always presented to me to be strange about allowing multiple wives but I never recall anyone ever saying anything about accepting homosexuality at all.
I am sure that my church (Lutheran) and the other religion I was closely associated with since my sister had become Catholic had ever said anything of the sort to me. I am sure I would have heard this if the rumor had been around during those years in the 50's and I am sure that given the attitude of Catholics and Lutherans towards Mormanism, I would have heard something.
This is as unscientific as you can get however, so it has little proof one way or another of the facts. I just don't think that it was ever true and it sounds like one of those little rumors about a group or religion that is begun by some who have a reason to be against them. *shrugs shoulders*
Ken
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Sorry Ken, but this study was done by the Mormons own University BYU (Brigham Young Univeristy).
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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This is a very interesting topic to me having been raised a Mormon youth in the heart of Utah. Let me say firstly that the church does NOT condone homosexuality. In fact it is a reason for excommunication. Was it always so? NO! In fact, I will refer you to an excellent place to begin your research:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_lds1.htm
Are there fewer or lesser gays among the general Mormon population? I don't know. How could you possible measure such a thing? I only know that I didn't lack for playmates as I was growing up!  And you will notice that a polygamist's 2nd and later wives tend to be in the 13 year-old range. This says something about a youth fascination.
Hugs, Pauly
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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