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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/TallShip/ is a petition to the UK Prime Minister not only to restore the Cutty Sark (recently all but destroyed by fire), but to restore her to a full sailing status and make her a Sail training Vessel
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Petition duly signed.
Incidentally timmy, I've checked and the movie set partly on a sail training ship that I mentioned on Monday is indeed called "White Squall" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118158/ ) - I remember it as excellent, but don't actually have a copy.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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There is no question that this has to be done.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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That must be quite some movie. Blockbuster doesn't have it, though.
The petition needs to be passed widely. Entombing this ship a second time makes no sense. Now there is decent access for a good iron trisail to be installed as well as the full re-rigging and recanvassing
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I’d love to see her under sail again the lines of that ship are beyond classic, and should be rebuilt! The only thing is that it’s going to cost a whole lot of money. I’ve seen diagrams of the extent of damage and it was bad, let me put it this way, my father had a little 40’ teak wood sloop built in the UK in the 60’s that cost just a bit over 20 thousand US dollars, the insurance replacement value by the 80’s was over one million. The restoration that was going on at the time of the fire was slated to cost 25 million pounds. I am just guessing but I would imagine that the Cutty Sark though framed in iron had teak planking. Are they even going to be able to find teak trees any more, big enough to cut those planks from? Sorry to go on and on about this, but when I think of the craftsmanship of British wooden boat construction, it was unmatched for it’s time. The wood alone, if they can find what they need, (wild guess here) will most likely cost over 100 million pounds and when you add trying to find the people with the skills to do the work. The mind boggles.
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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She's a magnificent ship and a complete restoration to former glory, and to something useful for young people, is a great idea!
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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There are some things that trandscent the meer concept of money. A ship such as this is more than a boat. It is a legacy of an era of mankind that is beyond anything we could possibly hope to achieve today.
The greatest expence would be to allow this treasure to pass into memory.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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i'd rather the money was spent making HMS Victory seaworthy, myself...
given that we our the nation with the greatest sea faring legacy, its unbelievable that the worlds oldest commissioned sailing vessel afloat is prefixed USS not HMS
i don't know why you're bothering though, it won't happen. This government has no care nor thought for anything that involves the words british, maritime and/or naval. Who cares that we are an island nation, who goes that we have a sea faring legacy, who cares that 80% of british trade is by sea, who cares that we owe our world position today to the sea, who cares that we build some of the greatest vessels to have ever sailed the ocean wave... whether its the treatment of the british fishing fleet, the funding of the royal navy, the proposed privatisation of elements of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency that deal with Maritime SAR, the preservation of the british shipbuilding industry and british sea ports, enforcement of safety standards and conditions on the british merchant fleet... the government doesn't give a damn. Preservation of one of the finest tea clippers to have ever sailed, let alone restoration of her is probably at the very bottom of the list of an already very low government agenda.
oh, and the government has already shown it doesn't care how many people sign those e-petitions. over a million people, myself included, signed the no to road charging petition. the government response said they were going to go ahead anyway. other high value petitions have had similar responses (the Save the Royal Navy one springs to mind).
Lets face it, we have an incredibly poor record of preserving ships for the nation anyway... and thats compared not just to the US, but also to a good few other sea faring nations too. You only need to look at the long list of ships the government, past and present, refused to preserve for the future. The two most shocking are surely HMS Warspite and HMS Vanguard but there are many other ships of massive historical value both civil and military that the government saw to the breakers yard.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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its unbelievable that the worlds oldest commissioned sailing vessel afloat is prefixed USS not HMS
Well....... Believe it...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Yup, let's not even try 
Look at this from a logistics viewpoint. The Cutty Sark is to be rebuilt, so it is much easier to make her sail again than the Victory. First do what can be done, then do what cannot.
There was no hope with the blood transfusions either, but we signed it. Eventually the drip of public opinion will make a difference. Or we coudl just grumble.
Creae a petition for HMS Victory. I'll sign it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I join all of you in the desire to see the Cutty Sark rebuilt! I’m also trying to say you aren’t going to get it done by just sitting back and saying we want it done, there will have to be a concerted effort on the part of individuals that want to her restored, I mean some serious, time, money and foot work!
As I have said just finding the wood if it is indeed Teak is going to be a difficult task. Back when she was built you could find teak wood trees feet in diameter now days the harvested trees are measured in inches, about 20” for a 25 year old tree, not to mention that the quality is not as good as the old growth trees of centuries past. Planks of a standard size, about 4” to 9” wide ^’ to 9‘long will cost around 20 US dollars per board foot. Now, and I still haven’t been able to find out if she does indeed have a teak hull but again if you want her to be sea worthy she’ll have to be built to original specs. And I can tell you the planking after the turn of her bilge aren’t going to be a scant 2” thick something more along the lines a foot thick. I’m not saying it can’t be done but someone is going to have to find recycled teak from Southeast Asia if you’re going to be able to find the dimensions needed! These thoughts are from experience from having been connected to restoration projects and is one of the more press in terms all the problems a endeavor like this is likely to encounter.
Most governments ain’t gonna do it, they will eventually help but the people that want it done are the ones that need to get the ball rolling. Hehe once the gov. see that the people want it done and are willing and that it is a matter of national pride, they will come along, It’s good press after all!
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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meh, i'd like to think there's more public support for restoring HMS Victory and making her sea worthy. i'd wager Oak is more readily available than Teak too...
Just picture HMS Victory sailing into whatever harbour they birth Constitution in and so totally dwarfing her.... hehehe
yeah yeah, i know, pipe dream
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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LOL, BP your too right as far as availability of construction materials go, as far as her dwarfing the Constitution goes, well, I mean The Victory displaces 1300 more tones, hehehe but ya know, I bet Victories cannon balls would still bounce off the Constitution's sides!
: P
Still, I would have to vote for the Cutty Sark if I had a say, sorry dude. She is to my mind more significant as far as sailing technological history go, and well, she just has great lines. Clipper ships look majestic under sail!
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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clipper ships look majestic???
and a 1st rate Ship of the Line doesn't???? come on black and ghold hull , sun glinting off gold and brass scroll work, a proud and noble site with studding sails, royals and top gallants set
here's HMS Victory, to the fore of the 2nd rate Ship of the Line, HMS Temeraire
HMS Victory carried 30x long 32 pounders, 28x long 24 pounders and 48x short 12 pounder cannons and 2x 68 pound carronades
at the waterline, her hull was 2ft of Solid Oak.
the battle that gave Constitution the name old Ironsides was against HMS Guerriere, which was, i believe, a 6th rate Frigate (compared to Victory's 1st Rate). She had 38 guns to Victory's 100.
Constitution herself was classified by the british as a 4th Rate frigate, and carried 52 guns (32x long 24 pounder and 20x 32 pound carronade). Her armament meant she was incredibly powerful in close range, giving her incredible durability in a line fight, but wasn't so good at range, where her carronades where useless.
Her hull was about the same thickness as Victory's. Rest assured, Victory's 32 pound guns would have no problem smashing through her Hull, as was demonstrated by the damage Victory herself suffered at Trafalgar.
this
over this?
nah...
EDIT
dammit, why can i never get pics to work?
~because you didn't get the img tag correct ~
[Updated on: Sun, 10 June 2007 09:28] by Moderator
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It really isn't a contest. Each vessel has substantial merit. Why not let's try for each, but individually.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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signed.
life is to enjoy.
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