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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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What is it that gives a person the strength to pull the trigger?
Is it nerve?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I don't think it has to do with courage or 'nerve'. I would imagine that it is an all over sense of hopelessness and futility that makes it seem a rational choice - an end to pain. Many of us have probably been close to that point sometime(s) in our lives - thank God something happened to intervene. Perhaps the thing to keep in mind is that when things appear as bad as they can get - then they can only get better - wait it out.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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how long? how many years... decades...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc, Sometimes it only takes a day. the only people who wind up being hurt are the ones who love and care about you. Everyday I face a challenge and everyday I keep going. I have friends, you and others and that helps me face each day.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Free Crisis Services
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Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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... was the realization that it was the only choice that I couldn't correct if it turned out to be a mistake. Perhaps a professional would suggest that I wasn't serious; but I was very serious about no longer accepting the unhappiness that pervaded my life at the time.
The choice I made was to take control of my life and eliminate the things that caused the unhappiness. I made changes and dedicated myself to creating and maintaining a happy life. As I sit here I must admit that my level of success was rather extraordinary. I've made mistakes but none that couldn't be corrected or otherwise dealt with. And certainly there have been compromises; nothing comes free, not even happiness.
I believe that happiness, like everything else, is something you earn. You work at it and strive for it just like the money you earn through your job. Just like the hours you spend earing a living, you pay for happiness through the compromises required to achieve it.
Another important point is attitude. It is extremely important to recognize the good things in your life and express your appreciation for them. This is the foundation of a positive attitude. I'm not talking about thanking God or whatever higher being you do or don't believe in. I'm talking about recognizing the good things YOURSELF, and simply being greatfull for them. You earned them, you made the sacrafices necessary, it is to you that you say thank you.
I've been doing that for nearly 40 years now and it has resulted in a mighty happy person. I hope this helps you achieve the happiness you seek.
JimB
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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to do that i would have to go back to the 60's and then finish what i had started then. my mistake was not leaving the house.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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*hugs Marc*
Desperation. Frustration. Anxiety.
It has to be a combination, I think.
Depression alone isn't enough. You have to have a level of panic/ anxiety that makes you want to do something rash. I've been anxious enough to rip out hair, before, but thankfully I've never been that anxious at the same time as I've been suicidally depressed. The combination would be the finisher.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Marc,
I agree with everything that the others here have already said. Please stop thinking along these lines. I have told you before, you have many people who care about you greatly. If you need to "get away from everything" for a while just send me an email. Let me also repeat my suggestion that a lot of catharsis can be gained from writing a detailed autobiography. And remember, despite all the terrible things that have been perpetrated on you throughout your life you are still around and still have people who care about you. The unexpected bolt out of the blue that could turn your life around might happen tomorrow. Who can tell?
Affectionately,
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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And, by not finishing what you started, you discovered that a lot of people love you, value you, look up to you, and that you have made a huge and positive difference to many lives so far.
To extend this, despite the fact that you are currently destined to go through a lousy period, you will find in the future that people love you, value you, look up to you, and that you will make a huge and positive difference to many more lives.
You have achieved much in your life. You have been hurt much, too. It isn't a set of scales and balances. Hurt is not weighed against other things. It's just hurt. And the good things are the good things.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I have been working on a writing project but not biographical...
If I could have had my way my life would have gone the way of the book.
I guess it's a fantasy... but then not...
when it is done some people will be angry or confused with me but thats OK... i'm used to that.
Hopefully I can finish it before the next semister begins...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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You can turn things around starting right now. Just like you can unscrew a light bulb and replace it you can begin making changes right this minute. It takes guts, it takes courage, it takes determination but you can make positive changes just as easily as you can pull the trigger.
What is keeping you from doing it? Does someone have to slap you along side the head? Your excuses are just that, excuses. Don't tell us why you can't; DO IT!
Do you understand that as long as you keep saying you can't you most certainly won't be able to. Your own thinking, your own attitude keep you mired in self-pity and unhappiness. Only YOU can do it, no one can do it for you. We can give you advice until hell freezes over but ONLY YOU can change your life.
Sorry for being so hard on you but I speak the truth. Stop telling yourself you can't and start telling yourself that you CAN.
JimB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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How does he shake the apparent evidence inside his head that he cannot?
I also know he can come through this. I've always known it. Just sometimes I am not sure how to help more, though.
That you are right, Jim, does not mean that someone in Marc's position can easily acknowledge it. So how does he start?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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I'm no expert at this, I program computers for a living, not people. I think that what a pro would say is small, not large. The problem seems to enormous to even start and that keeps the individual from starting. It doesn't have to be done all at once and in fact can't be done all at once (well, only one very negative way it can be done all at once). He needs to do something, anything, that brings him pleasure, puts a smile on his face. And then something else; and then something else.
At the same time he needs to begin eliminating the negative. Something he doesn't like, eliminate it; the color of a room, paint it. Then something else; fix it or get rid of it. He is so full of the negative that he can't see the positive that exists. He can't see that he is loved, he has to be told; and then he doesn't believe it.
Negativity breeds negativity; happiness breeds happiness; success breeds success. It sounds trite but it is true. The first step is the hardest, another truism.
Marc if you are reading this and want to tell us that you can't, stop. Tell it to Stephen Hawking. How would you like to be him, dude. Do you think he ever said "I can't"? Tell it to the 5 year-old boy who is the size of a 3 year-old and gets a stomach ache everytime he eats because of the parasites in his gut. The poor kid doesn't even understand what is wrong. You think you have it bad; look at the world around you. If you do so with your eyes open you can come to only one conclusion: you don't know what fucking bad is.
You have food to eat; you have a warm bed to sleep in; you have friends to help you; you have many tools to use to build a better life. I won't get negative and tell you what you don't have; you don't need any more excuses.
"I can't" is a disease and its only cure is "I can". Say it. "I can". Again, "I can". Now louder. "I can!" Louder. "I can!!" Shout it to the whole world. "I CAN! I CAN! I CAN!"
That's the first step Marc: eliminate "I can't" from your vocabulary. Its easy; look at the difference, "I can ", only two small characters. Do it; begin this minute.
JimB
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JimB, it SO is not that simple.
Severe clinical depression - for example - CANNOT be "fixed" by eliminating "I can't" from one's vocabulary ... this is like saying "Your cars engine has thrown a piston through the side of the block, so drive to the garage ..." Advice to "think positive" or "pull oneself together" may be harmful and counter-productive ... though advice on distracting oneself from dwelling on the negative is always useful!
Physical injury often CANNOT be fixed, and may be made VERY much worse, by attempting to eliminate "I can't" from one's vocabulary. Indeed, I personally did not start to be able to become properly active again until until I managed to persuade myself not to consistently exceed the limits of what I am physically capable of.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't challenge their limits - of course they should. But the challenge needs to be graded, appropriate, and sometimes people need support in doing it.
While a "positive thinking" (faith-healing, Chrisitan Science, etc) may work for some people and some situations, I think it's really important to realise that it certainly isn't a fix-all.
It is OK for people to be in positions where they need support, where there actually aren't any easy answers, and where taking control of life in such an assertive manner may not be either appropriate or possible.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Dont you think I have tried over the very many years to put these deamons to bed once and for all? I am not debilitated due to an illness or am I the child of a third world country. What was done to me was done right here in our so called enlightened society. I was a child and treated worse than... as less than an animal... long hard and repetedly... it lasted more than eight months. I have been through therapy... i spent a carrers worth of earnings to pay for it and none of their treatments or drugs help much more than to numb my ability to think. EXCUSES! you think i look for excuses? you dont know me. dont presume to know me until you really do... excuses... bull shit!
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Hi jimB
it is not easy to put negative thoughts in to a box and forget.
Some people do go through hell at some time in life, i think that all you can do is come to terms with what has happened, once this happens then some of the negative thoughts will diminish.
some people never can cope with life and some do take there own life.
It is not there thought that they are so troubled it can take a life time to sought out.
My Dad took his own life i dont blame him he could not cope, i feel very sorry that some one for reasons only known to them at that moment in time could take
there life, you just do not know what problems the person next to you in the tube, or the street have to cope with mentally.
life is to enjoy.
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I believe just the act of writing alone is a catharsis. It takes the mind to a more pleasant place - a place over which you have absolute control. It certainly isn't a cure: you have to re-emerge into reality to eat, sleep and do the day-to-day chores. But for the period of time you are immersed in your writing, you give your shattered nerves the opportunity to relax ... recuperate. Go ahead and write your story. When it is finished you may not have overcome all your problems but, hopefully, the immediate crisis will have abated and you will have a little more strength to cope. Do what works for you and has worked in the past.
Please don't give up on therapy. Perhaps it's a mater of finding the right therapist, even one that knows clinical depression from first-hand experience. Although it may be frustrating, attending therapy sessions cannot be a full waste of your time. You may eventually receive what you need.
I don't know if you believe in a diety, but for what it's worth, I am including you in my prayers. And you may skip this next part if you like - it is a prayer for those who are seemingly without hope:
~God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
~The courage to change the things that I can,
~And the wisdom to know the difference.
[Updated on: Thu, 21 June 2007 15:51]
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I'm not disagreeing with the steps you suggest, but I am saying that they are extraordinarily hard to do.
My wife is afraid (no better word) of heights. She knows it is illogical, knows it makes her seem weak, and can not conquer it. She can verbalise what she feels and it makes sense when she says it.
I have no fear of heights. I cannot understand her fear, but i can understand that she has it.
The example holds good for those who have been abused. It doesn't matter that the abuse is old, that they have healed the physical sides (for the greater part at least) or even that their abuser is jailed. There is something that makes them relive it as if it were happening today.
Your concepts may (or may not) suit individuals in this position, but how are they to decide on the correct step and then to take it? That is the challenge they face
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Jim.... i am sorry if i was short with you.....
Perhaps it would be easier for you to understand what i deal with....
ask tim for that though..... i naver go to that link on his site.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I have been writing for a long time. I have things that are biographical as events unfolded..... i have works about people i have known...
Then there is this project which i put everything else on the back burner to complete this story.
It will be done soon....... i am about half there.....
then i will need it proof read by a couple of people.... adjusted and then it will be ready to go out the door.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Jim, there are some things that just cant be undone like that. When a child is taught from the day he can understand that he was unwanted, a mistake, when he is told he should have been aborted, that doesnt go away, ever. Physical abuse goes away, its the mental abuse that stays. Something will be said or happen that will bring those memories back and they are painful and they hurt in a way you will never understnd. This is not exactly what Marc has experienced, in a way he has faced much worse. The physical part is over but the mental part is there for life.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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I was not gentle with you and I did it knowing I was being rough. I don't think coddling is what is needed and I'll continue to give it to you straight. The others who have responded have mentioned how difficult it is, that it is not as easy as I seemed to imply. I didn't mean to imply that it is easy. But I was and am trying to push you to BEGIN.
Yes, your's is not a physical problem due to injury or illness and that makes it even more difficult. The examples I gave were of physical problems simply because it is easiest to relate to the enormous effort and dedication that was and is required for them to continue with life. Part of overcomming such physical problems is through the mind and when the mind itself is the problem it just makes it more difficult. I do understand that. And I do acknowledge that the problems that I overcame were far less severe than your's.
I've always had a very strong mind and equally strong will. They allowed me to walk away from a drug addiction like I was going from one room to another. I could not tolerate the extreme embarrassment that had resulted from it. They allowed me to give up a good business and move 1200 miles from my origin and life-long friends in search of happiness. That last part certainly was not easy; it was frightening, to be honest. But the alternative was to continue living with the source of my unhappiness and I was totally unwilling to accept that.
Though your mind is the source of your problem it is also your most important asset and the most valuable tool you have. Fortunately you have a healthy body and it too can be an important tool.
Of all that I have said in this regard the three most important are:
Positive attitude; remember, negativity breeds negativity.
Small steps; the enormity of the problem prevents grand solutions.
Begin; nothing will happen until you begin the process.
A positive attitude is not a cure-all, that's for damn sure. You can also be sure that a negative attitude will prevent you from succeeding. The beginning of a positive attitude is convincing yourself that you CAN succeed. I believe that you can succeed; Timmy believes that you can succeed. Now it is time for YOU to believe that you can succeed. That is the first small step and you need to begin it NOW.
You think I'm crazy to refer to it as a small step, I bet. But compared to the rest of the task, it is a small step. Begin it today, right now. Go to the nearest mirror and look yourself in the eye. Out loud tell yourself, "I can succeed. I can be happy." Treat yourself like another person and convince that person in the mirror. Address that person in the mirror, tell him "I can succeed. I can be happy."; for as long as necessary, for as many days it takes until you convince him. Don't give up; its truely a life or death situation.
The truth is that you can succeed and you can be happy. That person in the mirror is preventing it and you MUST convince him that he is WRONG. Do it, start today; start right this minute.
I'm going to be away from my PC helping my Dad celebrate his 85th birthday this Sunday. I'll be back Monday and want to hear from you. I hope you'll tell me that you have begun.
JimB
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I am here, still breathing... that in and of itself is testament to the fact that i have begun... after 40 + years of trying to put this behind me i think i am doing fairly well... Some issues press buttuns that set off a self dectruct cycle and once it has started there is very little that can alter my train of thought... several years ago Tim convinced me to have the hand guns removed from my hime and it took 2 police men to carry out the boxes... that was a hard step to take for me...
I have over the years built a fortress of walls to shield me from the things i either fear or know i can not deal with...
A positive attitude... in most thigns my attitude is most positive... i built a carreer from nothing... worked at it until i was forced out by a disgruntaled student duw to a bad grade and am now trying to rebuild a phantom of a carreer in the wake of that situation.
To succede is one thing... that is easy... the happy part is quite impossible i am sorry to say. not that i dont try but my circumstances and the resultant shell i have encapsulated myself leads to a very self defeating potential toward relationships. it happens here... it happens in the 40 odd olaces that i have lived over the past 25 yrears it will happen here where i have lived the longest ever... almost 7 years...
it is so easy to buy a sely drandising commercial positive attidute self help book and do the smoke and mirrir trick but in the end al i am is out $18.95 for a worthless book and a but deeper in depression for failing that attempt as well...
Done think I do not try... every waking moment takes effort... every sleeping second brings horrors... this has gone on for 40 years... every day... every night...
I am here and stoll breathing... I AM TRYING...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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You are here. You have succeeded.
You speak of horrors. It seems to be fear stopping you more than depression.
But Marc, you have nothing to fear. You are powerful. You are in control. Inside, you probably feel like that young boy. But you are not. Bad dreams are just that- bad dreams. Something that happened 40 years ago was real then, but now, it is just a bad dream.
You can do it, you are doing it. Just realise how powerful you are, Marc.
And with power, comes control. You see that you haven't been in control in relationships, you feel like you've been left. It's scary, but you've left them as much as they have left you, even if the words said don't seem that way.
I can't hope to understand what you are thinking or feeling. But I'm human, too. I know what it's like to be scared, or to feel abandoned, or to feel like you've driven someone away. Or to feel unworthy. Or powerless. But you're not any of those things.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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