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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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I found this article quite good see what you think, please , some would have read it some may not have. oh the sun is out in the u.k.
http://epistle.us/articles/straightamerica.html
life is to enjoy.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It strikes a chord that resonates with me. He goes on far too long, but I agree with him, I think.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think he missed one point. Most really homophobic men hate us because they see in us something in themselves and they cant deal with it, so they strike out.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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Very good article, he makes many valid points about Americans, I wonder though if Europe is any more liberating.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I'm afraid I never noticed whether he made that point. He was about half an article too long for me.
We have to be careful about the "conceit of being gay". My son and I are close enough to discuss this stuff openly. I've asked him about thsi very point, and he says that he has genuinely never, ever felt even the slightest but interested in finding about about the physical side, let alone been attracted to another male. Ge accepts that he likes his male friends very much, sometimes with something that might approach deep affection or even love, but can't recognise any latent homosexual attraction at all.
That said, many men are interested in finding out what it feels like. But we do need to be careful of generalisations in this area.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think the situation in the UK is rather different. We have a long tradition of camp entertainers (Frankie Howard, Elton John, Julian Clary, Larry Grayson, John Inman, and so on and on and on). As a very broad generalisation, straight people here don't seem to feel so threatened by obviously effeminate gay men.
What seems really scary is the idea that gay men might be JUST LIKE yourself / husband / friends / father / brother ... that you might in fact be surrounded by ordinary people doing ordinary things and they might secretly fancy you! This is really subversive - it is far more threatening to the false sterotype that "all men are butch straights" than safely being able to assume that all gay men are pansies that can be spotted a hundred yards away.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You were watching "Gay Decade" earlier this evening!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy wrote:
> You were watching "Gay Decade" earlier this evening!
If only! I was in a finance subcommittee meeting that didn't finish til gone nine, and didn't get home until about quarter to ten. Gay quotient was minimal.
Not complaining though - it feels good to be working again ...
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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NW wrote:
> I think the situation in the UK is rather different. We have a long tradition of camp entertainers (Frankie Howard, Elton John, Julian Clary, Larry Grayson, John Inman, and so on and on and on). As a very broad generalisation, straight people here don't seem to feel so threatened by obviously effeminate gay men.
Here we have Milton Berle, Red Skelton, Paul Linde, Charles Nelson Reiley and the list could go on im sure...... All of these were mainstreem entertainers for the better part of their lives. Their notoriety was testament to the fact that they left us as a media watching public unthreatened.
>
> What seems really scary is the idea that gay men might be JUST LIKE yourself / husband / friends / father / brother ... that you might in fact be surrounded by ordinary people doing ordinary things and they might secretly fancy you! This is really subversive - it is far more threatening to the false sterotype that "all men are butch straights" than safely being able to assume that all gay men are pansies that can be spotted a hundred yards away.
I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as a straight man.... There is not a man alive or dead on this planet that would refuse a good solid blow job. They all want it.... even if they don't know it yet.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc wrote:
>
> I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as a straight man.... There is not a man alive or dead on this planet that would refuse a good solid blow job. They all want it.... even if they don't know it yet.
Well, I pretty much agree that in the right circumstances almost all men will have sex with another man - in prison or other single-sex institutions, for example.
But I don't agree about blow-jobs - not something that I especially enjoy (either giving or recieving), though if it makes a partner happy I won't fight it.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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There is always enough money or booz to make a str8t man drop his pants.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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> I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as a straight man.... There is not a man alive or dead on this planet that would refuse a good solid blow job. They all want it.... even if they don't know it yet.
My state's senator, Larry Craig, says he's a straight man. Yet he evidently enjoys it! ::-)
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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with lights out a man would not know the difference gay or st8.
life is to enjoy.
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jack wrote:
> with lights out a man would not know the difference gay or st8.
That's possibly why I dislike having sex with the lights out. For me, if sex isn't about relating to a specific other person, it's meaningless. And if I want meaningless sex, masturbation is cheaper and safer.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Well not that we have all strayed off topic, I think it is time to get back to what is at hand.
You all hade very valid points, he did go on far to long, he also made a lot of repetition of points, as well as generalising and grouping. It also seemed to me that he had written the article mainly based on a personal view and did not seem like he had consulted people correctly.
But now it needs to make you wonder, is this attitude mainly American or does it span the globe, in some small way?
I feel very luck you have been born and have grown up in a time and place where being gay is of no huge affect or effect to me or anyone around me. Yes give I only came out 2 and a bit years ago, but even up to that point I never really felt threatened or unloved.
I think that there will always be people that "hate" things about others, and try to force their ways on them, but it is one of those things that we will, in my view, never eliminate from society.
South Africa truly is the rainbow nation, and I feel that people around the world could learn a few things from the way we interact with one another, and the same goes for all of us.
"And so the lion fell in love with the Lamb"
"What a stupid Lamb"
"What a sick, masochistic lion"
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daffey44
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Getting started |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2004
Messages: 23
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The basic premise -- anti-feminism -- seems wrong, partially because some rabid homophobes are women. As a native-born U.S. citizen, I believe there are two intertwined factors involved.
There is a general xenophobia among those in the U.S. whose parents were born here (those who are at least second-generation native-born), a dislike or even fear of the "others" -- of anyone different. In the 19th century, this was first directed against Irish and Italian immigrants, then against Germans, and later against Russian immigrants; throughout that entire time, there was also hatred directed against immigrants from Asia. Today, we see anti-immigration attitudes directed primarily against Hispanics from the south (who look a bit different) but not against Canadians from the north or Europeans. This translates into a hatred of both those men who appear effeminate and those men who are actually discovered to be gay, both of whom are different from those who hate.
Then there is the need to feel superior. In the past, this was evidenced by racial discrimination and anti-Semitism . White share-croppers and other low-income people could feel better about their own poverty and ignorance if they felt superior to Blacks. Others gained their superiority by excluding Jews from their social activities. "Keep them down; they're not as good as us!" Now that we might even have a President who happens to be Black, the need to feel superior is redirected against gays.
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Re: Attitude re gay/st8 america. 
