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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It begins:
Quote from ORIGIONAL post.....
i think i just found someone and actually lives close he said he was looking for some one like me and hed love to talk if i wanted to...oh and hes got a freakin gorgeos body and hes a bit older....
"I think I found someone" .... NOT I think I found a friend. The phrasiology here of the opening comment leads any person with a half a brain cell to the conclusion that this is more or headed to BE more than a platonic friendship.
Moreover.....
FIRST REPLY.....
nothin wrong with an older guy. I am seeing a donovan whos 28 and i am 20. but i am going nutts tho, this whole dating a guy thing is new to me..
well make sure u meet him some where public like a starbuks and let someone know where u r going. and be safe.
And the response.....
haha okay ill keep ya posted hes a rock climber wich is why he moved here, and maby why he looks like he was chizled out of rock him self =), wow we have the same age diffrences
and do tell more about him, my reason y is i am just noisy...
Ahh, Here we see the word "DATING" used in conjunction with the phrase "NOTHING WRONG WITH AN OLDER GUY"
And then responded to....
"CHISLED OUT OF ROCK HIMSELF" certainly some looking for a simple friendship would not present himself to exhibit his chisled features.
And then the phrase.....
"WOW WE HAVE THE SAME AGE DIFFERENCES" Which, combined with all of the above leads one to the logical conclusion that dating of a more corporeal nature is the plan.
Now really, this is not high calculus.... Do the simple arithmetic...
And I still believe that thost that advocate, cheer for or sit on the bench with child preditors, chicken hawks, whatever you wish to call them..... are just as bad as those they cheer for.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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A teenager sexually active enough to masturbate can sexually desire to be with someone. Some teenagers like "adults", that is guys in their 20s usually. My boyfriend is one.
Relationships of a predatory nature aren't to be condoned. But you seem to put everyone in the same category. No-one is "cheering" for relationships with substantial age gaps. Rather saying that it is a matter of free choice.
Ryan isn't the only person at his school with a substantially older partner. He knows at least 3 girls with boyfriends my age or older.
It's substantially more common for teenaged girls to date 20-something and while some parents disapprove, in Australia at least, age gaps of 4-8 years aren't uncommon.
I guess it's just a different culture, though.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ahhhh ...... yopu are wrong...
I only read the words as presented....
I read your "open letter" and as i fundamentaly feel that your innitial entrance to the world of "teen chat rooms" was a little on the predatory side of the coin you took the time and effort to aviod interpretation by explaining that you chose to persue this relationship responsibly.
The innitial exchanges I described above do nothing of that sort.
They lead to the only possible conclusion and that is due to the methodology used in the presentation of the words the posters chose to place for inspection.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc, with respect ...
I know you feel strongly about this subject, but what are your own motives?
The primary thing in any circumstances like these is to surely make sure a teenage boy is safe. IF you are concerned about the welfare of Jinjay-kun, then these things would seem appropriate:
- verify the circumstances, age and situation
- establish whether there is potential danger for Jinjay-kun
- then give ADVICE according to what you have established, not what you project onto the conversation.
If your primary motive is to ensure that anyone who might wish a relationship with a teenage boy is arrested, then you evidently DON'T have his best interests at heart, for if it gets to that stage then it will cause immeasurable damage and upset to Jinjay-kun.
Remember that Jinjay-kun is the one who brought up the subject, presumably wishing comments or advice. If you get so worked up that you start flinging accusations about anyone who disagrees with you, then you will end up doing surely the worst possible thing, which is
- to make it impossible for Jinjay-kun to broach the subject again here (so he'll never get any useful advice on the subject)
- and possibly even putting him off coming to the board again.
That leaves everyone worse off.
David
[Updated on: Sat, 08 September 2007 10:04] |
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Marc said,
>They lead to the only possible conclusion and that is due to the methodology used in the presentation of the words the posters chose to place for inspection.
'The only possible conclusion' -- if there is only one possible conclusion then this would mean that everyone would be unanimous on what is happening here. I don't think that is the case. I don't understand why you didn't start out by asking for clarification. There really is precious little to go on in that opening exchange.
I repeat -- whose interests do you have at heart?
If Jinjay-kun is over 16, then he is of an age where he should be able to make up his own mind on relationships. If the age of consent is 18 where he is and he has not reached it, then, no, he should avoid a sexual relationship with someone older because of the law and the complications that then arise, but that does not mean his judgement counts for nothing at all.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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im response to the IM conversation.....
Do not respond, reply or othorwise interrelate to me.
Any response will be considered an attack and treated as such.
these are my final words on the subject.
Any furthur communication from this quarter will be handled by the proper authorities.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Well, that makes me very sad, but if that's what you want, then okay, Marc.
Do you usually report friends to 'the proper authorities' when you have a disagreement? It must make you very hard to know in real life.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Jinjay-kun once mentioned he's not old enough to drive. I believe that puts him at 16 or under. Which is definitely a situation to be wary of.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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to me goodbye means total disassociation.
it means death.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc,
death then ?
i'd perfer to live with u mon ami
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I think this sums it up:
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
I don't see anyone advising Jinjay to rush headlong into this. But he does seem to have his own mind made up, so he needs our advice based on that, I think. And our congratulations.
You may not consider Jinjay capable of making up his own mind on this issue, Marc. But from what he has said, he has been the one pursuing as much as anything. And he is the one we need to correspond with. His "someone" doesn't read the forums, after all, so there is no point in criticising him.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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For goodness's sake, 'goodbye' is just a word. It doesn't have the same connotations to me or to anyone else I have met. I used it to finish the conversation in a formal, if abrupt way because if we had continued I would have ended up being very rude to you, and that would have been, as far as I am concerned, much worse.
'Goodbye' really has nothing to do with death and if you see a connection then that is, I am afraid, your issue and not mine. I use it ten times a day when I'm talking to people on the phone, and the vast majority of people use it back to me. Perhaps there is a cultural difference across the Atlantic, and there is a superstition of some sort in America against it, but I'm British, not American, and superstition is nonsense anyway.
It certainly does not preclude talking again when we have calmed down.
[Updated on: Sat, 08 September 2007 12:00] |
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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David,I appologize.
I'm not thinking straight. This subject has that effect on me.
Im sorry.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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We have a young man who made a post about his meeting an older person, whether that be on line or in person.
I assume he posted, not for approval, but for the open advice we are famous for here. I am sure he knew that not all would be encouraging advice, and that caution would be advised. There is an age difference, after all.
I am not sure that he anticipated, in the same manner that I would not have anticipated, either headlong encouragement (I'm not sure he has had that) or an attack on those who gave him any encouragement (I can see that this has taken place).
I want to remind everyone here of the tenets of this board:
- I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
- Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
- So much is here. help, advice, deep discussions, freedom to do anything except judge, insult anyone or flame them
- If you have something to say, break the ice and say it. This place thrives on discussions, even hugely controversial ones.
- Please use care and charity when you discuss here, and realise that absolutes are unlikely despite your or my certainty in them.
I'd like everyone to look at these carefully and to decide, privately, to themselves, which they have adhered to and which they have not.
Anyone needing to apologise to anyone else, they are welcome to use the board or to use other methods. If you are not sure whether you need to apologise or not, trust me, that means that you do.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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thank you timmy id just come to say some final words, im taking a leave of absence from the forum and wish things had not gotten so out of hand, he really is sweet and says he justs wants to be friends wether it develops into something more soon or not so with that said i geuss ill be off sorry again
What A Wonderful catariciture of intamacy,
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I do not think that leaving for good because of this is necessarily the right action. The problem with a place like this is that we cannot, as has often been said, see the eyes of the person posting, nor their expression, nor their tone of voice.
Thus a post that meant one thing to the writer means a different thing to the reader.
I am, if anyone has yet failed to notice it, angry about the way this has affected you. Perhaps your excitement at meeting a kindred spirit was "too much", though I don't think so. Perhaps your admiration of his toned body was unwise to say, but I don't think so. My son has a toned body and he's handsome as can be, but I don't want to get into his pants!
I think you have now seen us for what we are. A group of kind people who are also passionate about protecting the young from harm. We each express this in our own way. It seems to me that we do not always stand in the shoes of the perosn we are trying to advise.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I'll miss you, Jinjay, but you're welcome back any time. Some people here get upset and worried about some things perhaps more than they should. It's a tricky issue, but everyone, I think wants what is best for you. Some people just think differently about what is best.
Take care, though.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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A reality.....
First rule of survival:
Never get close to people. In the end all it brings is disaster.
Ive made a mistake. It will never happen again.
[Updated on: Sun, 09 September 2007 13:26]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I dont think I know exactly how to take that.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I'd take it as a yell from a friend in pain.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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First thing here is, I think some of us are judging Jinjay's friend and we shouldnt judge. Without talking to and knowing this man we really dont know what he is like or how he thinks. Jinjay has already told him there is no sex involved. I think Jinjay is prettu smart and seems to have it together. I think he will know if something is wrong.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Roger,
Im sorry.... I didn't mean you.
Damn it.... You know how I feel....
Jordan.... This is not about you either....
I need to talk to you both....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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An excellent point. What we need to remember is that Jinjay posted. So it is his shoes we must stand in.
I see everything right about advising him that an older person may be either a potential good friend, or a man with predatory intent. He might not have thought about the issue. After such advice he would have, for sure.
But we must all make up our own minds about our own friends. We must use or learn caution.
The thing I do not like is that "we" judge, sight unseen. We may offer thoughts, yes. But making a judgment about them is not approved of in the tenets of this forum.
It is certainly wise, for both parties, that a young person only meets an older person in scrupulously safe circumstances. I would say it was essential. But we cannot judge the motives of either, despite, and this is important, despite anything they may say here.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Okay. first off, if I have said anything in my own postings that caused offense, then please accept my apologies.
That being said, I think everyone who responded to this issue did so from a sincerely felt desire to help and to advise. Sometimes the advice people give us isn't the unqualified encouragement we would like to hear, but accepting thant advice in the spirit that it is offered is part of becoming a mature individual. My Father gives me advice all the time that I listen to, and then go and do something stupid anyway. But as I've grown older, and especially this year, my Dad's advice has made more sense.
On this issue of sexual predators, I have to assume Jinjay-hun that you are about my age, 17, and so you've probably had the usual public school "family life" classes and learned about Internet safety, and when to recognize that's you're being "groomed" by an older man attempting to befriend you. There's a fine, and sometimes a very fine line, between "mentoring" and "grooming." Dude, I've been an Internet victim, and I'm telling you they are subtle and patient, and you have to be very careful with allowing this "mentoring."
I'm sorry Jinjay-kun, but I'm still leary of the motives of any older guy wanting to befriend a younger one. I want you to be happy dude, and I think you'd be way wicked happier with a guy our age.
I'm sorry you decided to pick up your marbles and go home. I hope, for your sake, this isn't a pattern of behavior you do when things don't go your way, or people don't agree with you, or when people (especially parents) don't give you the head-pats and atta-boys you want to hear.
I swear dude, if I had listened to and heeded my Dad's advice in middle school, my life would have been so much easier. But he was preaching a sermon I wasn't in the mood to hear and all I could think was "he doesn't understand." He understood alright, because he had his head up his ass at thirteen just like I did.
It takes a while for us to get our heads out of our asses. It seems that guys our age are not programed to think with our big heads, only our little ones. I'm not sure how far my head is still up my ass, but I do think sometimes, always after the fact, about "what I just did for my friend Pete." Because for me, when Pete starts thinking for me, then trouble brews. But, I still listen to him all the time. My dick, not my Dad. LOL.
Dude, Jinjay-kun, just take care of yourself, okay man?! I have a feeling you'll read this. I have a feeling you're emotionally needy enough to want to know that "people will miss you." Not a criticism dude, because we will miss you. I wish I could read this forum more than I do, but four AP courses this semester (Physics, Calculus I, Modern European History, and Expository Writing) have me jumping through hoops with homework and long-term school projects.
Jonny
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