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unsui
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Likes it here |
Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 19:59] |
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Amazing! Thank you so much Michael!
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I fully agree with you, However, I was raised in a non loving environment. To have let it be known that I was gay would have been a desaster. When I turned 18 and started university, I disowned my entire family, literally. I came out when I was 19 and met the love of my life. We both graduated and went for our doctorates. I taught theology and Mark taught applied physics. we were out on campus and our door was always open to any gay student who had questions or needed help in working out a problem.
I was with Mark for over 30 years. It was a magical wonderful time. I lost Mark to cancer. It almost drove me insane. It was the people here who helped me thru it, Timmy, Cossie, Tor, Marc and all the others.
Having been openly gay alowed me to experience life in a wonderful way. I feel for those who had to hide and cover up their real nature. Its not just the bi sexuals but anyone who has to hide behind a mask.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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What a wonderful post, Michael, and full of common sense advice. I too am from a generation that felt the only way to get along in society and protect myself was to try and deny my true sexual identity. And I understand burying that side of yourself that even hints at femininity - that more gentle side. I have finally rekindled a joy that I lost so long ago - the ability to be spontaneous and to show my emotions - things I considered unmanly.
Being true to yourself is still difficult in American society which is still Puritanic to such a large degree. So I don't want todays younger generation to believe that they somehow have it easy compared to us old farts. It still takes courage and tenacity to keep yourself from denying your true identity. But such denial costs you much more in the long run. I am not encouraging you to 'come out' if doing so would put you in danger or segregate you or cost you family support - but to look forward to a time when you can safely do so and gain your right to be a whole person and be all you can be. Today you may have to hide certain aspects of who you are to most people, but don't bury them and deny them. Don't grow to become a cold and emotionless adult in order to satisfy someone else's image of who you should be. Preserve your right to a happy future.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The world did not change hugely in the 15 years after your birth. My generation was he same, self oppressed, self closeted generation that yours was.
I agree totally that suppression of natural orientation reinforces it beyond measure, the more so if one does not explore it nor express it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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Wow! I'm sorry to hear about your loss, sadly, I wear a mask
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Thanks, Michael, for a post reflecting a lot of wisdom. I'm now 60, and when I was young 'common sense', whatever that is, told me that homosexuality was abhorrent and something that could and should be suppressed, so I chose to adhere to that. I married and was given two daughters, who are now adult, one of them with three children.
I married twice but am now on my own, and have finally accepted myself for who I am, to a large extent thanks to Timmy's place and the great people here. (Thanks, Roger, you know that the feelings you express are mutual!) I love my kids, and while I agree with every word you say about suppressing one's true identity, I feel lucky having my children and their families, and I would never want to be without them. The best part of my story is that they love me and accept me being gay.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If this is written from the perspective of a 13-16 year old boy then the boy is doing it with the vocabulalary of a 67 year old.
If you want to write from the point of view of a teen, use the words a teen would use..... not those of an english professor.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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While a good point, what do you think of the content?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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First period English again. I have to learn to write more slowly so I have something productive to do in class while the others are slaving away on their weekly required essay. I'm two weeks ahead in my required writing. I guess posting comments here is better than surfing for free boy porn or reading stories.
Marc, I can understand the reasoning behind your comment, but I would like to take exception to it. I think you do insult some teenagers when you imply that everyone in my generation or of my age speaks in monosylables and has a limited vocabulary.
There are guys of 17 like me, and like my friends, who come from families with histories of college and post-graduate education, who are reasonably literate and well read for their ages, and who have parents who insist on intelligent conversation at the supper table. When we stand up and walk our knuckles don't drag along the floor and we can breathe with our mouths closed. We have interests that go beyond the current rap and sagger-culture trends.
Granted, we don't use words like "nevertheless" anymore. We'd probably say, "yeah, well anyway...," but I understood the message behind the written comment. Granted, guys my age have a way of speaking to each other that is different than the way we write, unless we're texting each other, but nevertheless LOL I understood the intent of the writing and of trying to recall times past.
I also want to say that I give our older mentors on this board a lot of credit for getting through their lives in less tolerant times and sometimes against really terrible odds. I was born in 1990 and have never known life without color TV, cable, computers, my personal laptop, and all the other stuff guys my age take for granted. I'm really glad you older guys lived long enough to see the opening of a new chapter where tolerance is growing for guys like us. I think teenagers still have to face things, especially about coming to terms with their sexuality but things are way wicked easier for us than they were for you guys.
Bell. Gotta jet.
Jon
[Updated on: Wed, 19 September 2007 12:48] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I'd like to add a couple of monotonal grunts to that.
When I was a teenager I had excellent English teachers. I think there will have been ones of equal quality, but none better.
I was educated to have an enormous vocabulary and to use it (in adult life this is a weird disadvantage among my peers), and to treasure grammar, syntax, and excellence of phraseology.
Today we have neanderthals in the cult of celebrity in the media who say things like "It never worked whatsoever" and think that's the correct usage. But most people who come here are not monogrunters, nor are most teenagers.
We postured, too. We used whatever the current vogue words were then. Things that were good had just stopped being "keen" and had become "cool" or ~gasp~ "hip". But we wrote good English, uncool, unhip and certainly not keen.
I wonder if something written from a teenager's perspective should be written in the current vogue. As I think this works: "Allow tings like allow, man. Issit!"
Perhaps someone from Slough will correct me.
[Updated on: Wed, 19 September 2007 13:26]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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As presented by a person of years and experience.... it was OK....
Sad, poignant, and gives rist to some considerable thought....
But none of that comes with the inclination that its from the perspective of a young teen.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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As the time frame and location for the essay was of WWII and Bath England As a readewr i would expect the use of the common language of that time, not that of our current times.
I meant no slight to present day students on any level.
As for the conditions of those times..... Well, it wasn't a picnic to be sure.
Whatever....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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To that I say.....
Yours is but just one opinion....
Most young people did not attend the upper grade public schools.... and during the war..... i would think even less so.....
My english teachers werent slouches either.... I was sent off to one of the highest rated schools as far as accademics were concerned....
It was their tollerance and social skills that were more then lacking.
Necertheless, I prefer something written within the time and style with its intent.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I certainly agree with you about the perspective, however, The point he was trying to make was made. When you supress your nature several things occure. Loneliness, unfullfilled want, something missing in life and desire unfullfilled. You and I were not in the closet so we did not supress what made us us. The world is changing and it will be easier for the kids growing up now to be what they are.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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unsui
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Likes it here |
Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 19:58] |
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Michael,
You did well getting your point accross. I to was taught the proper use of english. It makes me cringe sometimes when I hear the english language butchered by the up and coming generation. Then I remember that when we were teens we did a bit of butchering of our own.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You know, the more I look at this the more I see that "perspective" is being ignored and "vocabulary" is being discussed.
Whether we fuck or have sexual intercourse, it is the perspective that matters. The vocabulary simply describes it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Michael said,
>If you read some of the writings of children and young adults (know today as teens) from the 1800s, it will put my 67 year old writings to shame. There is less emphasis placed upon written and spoken English today perhaps because there is so much more to learn.
Some, yes. But remember in the 19th century it was only the lucky few who were well-educated. The best of them may rival or surpass the best of us today -- but the mediocre and illiterate are simply not remembered. These days, it is very easy for the mediocre to make themselves heard, especially online. Thus they seem much more prevalent. This is a separate issue from that of better education -- I would imagine that today's 'man on the street' is much better-educated than he would have been 150 years ago.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Well, here in Bracknell, Chav capital of the UK, the Chav in the street "Don' unnerstan' wot yer sayin whatsoever," and might well be unable to read it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think you insult the readership of this board by implying that a teenager writes a certain way -- both those who are teenagers and those who have been (which covers just about all of us). When I was 13 or 16 I sounded, online, pretty much the same as I did now. In fact, I probably tended more towards the formal -- I did not post on internet messageboards with any frequency, so when I did I tended to be much more nervous and composed than is my wont here nowadays (this post notwithstanding!). Some of my comments were, with retrospect, naive, and often I feared that they were, but grammar and vocabulary were always things I could cling to if I were otherwise feeling unsure of myself.
That most teenagers don't write in a certain way most of the time does not imply that many are not capable of or inclined to do so. It does not strike me as at all unlikely that a poster here, even a hypothetical one -- especially here, considering how many intelligent young people have visited over the years -- would sound literate and educated at the age of 13 or 16.
David
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Butchering the English language in private peer-to-peer conversation is one thing, but butchering it in a public written forum is another. I don't speak this way with my friends, I'd sound totally weird if I did, but I wouldn't write the way I speak.
I think we're all getting caught up in the dissection of the minutae of this and are drifting off the main point.
I'm not even sure what the main point was anymore. LOL.
Aarrggh. I'm off to try to get calculus homework finished before supper so I can at least write something on my journal story tonight.
Later dudes,
Jon
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I would like to mention something that I discovered last year when I was a Junior (year 11 for you British guys). I was taking AP United States History: Revolution, Sectionalism and The Civil War. It was one of the best courses ever, and I learned so much I thought I'd like to do history as a major in college. But in doing research for a paper on the Eleventh North Carolina Infantry Regiment, recruited from my home county, I was amazed at the various levels of literacy. Naturally the officers were of a higher literacy and used better grammar and had a wider vocabulary. But the enlisted men seemed to write exactly as they spoke. In fact, I read some of the letters I found out loud and it was as if the soldier was right there, describing how he lost his spare shirts in a poker game.
So I agree that the 19th century may have produced some totally awesome writers, but there were fewer of them.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well, the thing is that i much prefer to enjoy what i take the time to read.....
If I want a treatise i will add another course or do more research for what i already have as a workload.
That being said,,,,,,, Why not tell us somewhat about yourself....
as for me..... I'm the resident pain in the ass....
Marc, Northern Ohio on Lake Erie..... http://www.cedarpoint.com will say what life basically consists of here....
Im 55 years old and a full time student, writing a book, actually a series...
Oh...... if you'd like to talk my IM id's are on my profile thingy
[Updated on: Wed, 19 September 2007 21:34]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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