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that there is not one gay person in Iran? The Iranian President says so.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3453470,00.html
Maybe he wasn't fibbing. After all, last year several Iranian men were hanged for being gay - so now there aren't any.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think serious pragmatism says that no-one in Iran is gay under this régime. I have gay friend there who has gay friends there. If they have any sense they will have been cured miraculously. Allah Aqbar.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Perhaps, it's best not to be there and be gay.....
Sad.... very sad....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Marc it is rarely that we have any thing to agree on ,but i do agree this time.
i read some where that some of our biblical friends were gay.
so it makes me laugh loudly when this person has to lie probably in the name of ( ) oh some religion ,i left it out so as not to cause a storm.!
re jack
life is to enjoy.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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An absolute joke, I'm glad the audience laughed rather than applauded.
I was appreciative of Bollinger's opening remarks on free speech. Overall it was an interesting exchange. Ahmadinejad is even better than most western politicians at dodging questions, though. A question about women's and gay rights turned into a tirade about illegal drug smugglers.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Update:
Homosexuals should be executed, Iranian Parliament Member Mohsen Yahyavi said during a discussion between Iranian legislators and British officials in London in May, according to the protocol of the meeting published Tuesday in the British newspaper The Times. Yahyavi, a member of the committee on energy affairs in Iran's Parliament, was in Britain for a peace summit.
A day after his controversial appearance at Columbia University, in which he declared that homosexuality did not exist in Iran, Tehran resident says, 'They exist, but have to hide.'
"According to Islamic law, homosexuality is a grave crime," Yahyavi was quoted as saying. "It's a severe crime that goes against the laws of nature. It is human nature to procreate and homosexuals do not procreate."
The Iranian legislator added, "We do not have any opposition to this type of behavior as long as it is done behind closed doors, but those who (engage in) this behavior in public should be put to death."
The protocol shows that Yahyavi originally indicated that homosexuals should be "tortured," but he quickly corrected himself and said they hould be "put to death."
Britain and various human rights groups have been constantly criticizing Iran for its poor humans rights record. Recently, the Iranian government was given a report which accuses the pariah state of publicly hanging people convicted of engaging in homosexual behavior. Iran has also been accused with executing women who were raped or accused of adultery.
The issue of homosexuality in Iran gained the world's attention when Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad referred to it by saying "we don't have this phenomenon in Iran" during a visit to the US in October.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Because there is nothing in this big blue ball that will alter their opinion.
Their religion has its laws. It's just that simple.
Keep behind closed doors or face the consequences. It's a simple rule.
If that doesnt work then immigrate to another country.
Only a stipid person walks into a fire..... but what kind of person walks in and stands there.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc wrote:
Their religion has its laws. It's just that simple. Keep behind closed doors or face the consequences. It's a simple rule.
May I then understand, Marc, that when the laws of a certain religion (any religion) require the execution by hanging of homosexuals that you would would accept this with equanimity?
As far as I am concerned, the judicial taking of a human life - for any reason - is a barbaric relic from the past. Since I do not believe - and neither do you - that any homosexual act between consenting adults, whether done privately (as it should be) or publicly (as it definitely should not) is a capital offence, I have to deplore the execution of gays in Iran, particularly if those executions are done in the name of religion.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No not at all....
but... It just happens that in Iran, the law of religion IS the law of the land.
The 17 and 18 year old boys that were hung were apprehended in a park.
It was thier error in judgement. That knew the risk, they knew the consequences.
If they had been in doors then they would still be here.
Do I personally condone capital punnishment.... Not for this... for some other things, yes, but not this...
But then I'm not in Iran, I dont need to worry about Islamic law...
and the fact that I, or you, or anyone doesn't like Islamic law and the way they treat gays, its a fact of life and theres nothing we can do about it. Therefore the only real soloution in Iran for gays is to either cloister themselves or move to another country.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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You know something, I've made my position on this subject clear in the past, so why should I alter it this time?
It doesn't matter one iota if I, or you, or the guy down the street doesnt like what is happening in Iran regarding the treatment of gays.
It is going to happen because their religion says it is going to happen and in Iran their religion defines the law.
It doesn't mean that I advocate hanging of boys. It does however give me enough insight that one does not go to the park and get caught in a sexually compromising position. If I were to be visiting Iran I certainly wouldnt go to the park to go cruising for guys. If they knew the risk and they chose to ignore it, then the matter is in their hands.
I can say "oh how hideous this is", but it is all just lip action... because the Iranians are not going to denounce their religion due to their politics or treatment of gays any more that the Jewish community would denounce their religion due to their own politics.
The Islamic law is not a new thing, neither are the consequences.
[Updated on: Wed, 14 November 2007 10:15]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It is sad that Iran and Islamic law takes this position. I have to agree with your own views. They do know the consequences. Horrible and extreme consequences and to be deprecated, but I don't fancy invading Iran on a Gay Rights ticket.
It must be awful to be gay and in terror like that, though. So I feel for those who are gay and in Iran.
There is a value in lip flapping, though. Maybe it won't help in this century, but perhaps in 2100?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... though I accept that everyone is fully entitled to form their own opinion.
Dismissing the matter as being simply an issue of religious law, to be accepted. or ignored at risk of death, implies that all followers of Islam are equally misguided. That simply isn't true. The owerwhelming majority of the world's Muslims are NOT extremists; they interpret the Quran in precisely the same way as moderate Christians interpret the Bible - as a guide to life which is sometimes literal, but more often allegorical. They neither persecute homosexuals nor do they approve of the extremist regime in Iran. They are fully able to address such issues and to poke wry fun at aspects of their culture. I'm not sure whether they were even released in the USA, but - if available - I would unhesitatingly recommend two British feature films which give a pretty fair insight into the cultural divide. 'East is East' addresses (with tongue pretty much in cheek, but with serious undertones) the question of mixed marriage; 'My Beautiful Laundrette' - the film which launched the career of Daniel Day-Lewis - specifically focuses upon a mixed-race homosexual relationship.
The actions of those in power in Iran are comparable with the actions of those who have assaulted or murdered gays in the United States - they arise from a distorted view of religion. No-one can change the stance of a sovereign state unaided, any more that a single voice can change the distorted outlook of Christian fundamentalists - and Iran is a particularly difficult state. But the collective drip-feed of opposition and disapproval CAN have an effect, at least in the longer term. It is that very process which has given the UK its strong anti-discrimination legislation; don't forget that a little over 50 years ago the UK was forcing Alan Turing (of 'Enigma' fame, and in essence the father of the modern computer) to accept treatment which resulted in the growth of breasts (and his eventual suicide) for the offence of being a homosexual.
In my personal view, to fail to oppose something which is manifestly wrong, even in the knowledge that my single voice will achieve nothing unless it helps to inspire the voics of many thousands of others, would be a total abdication of my sense of moral responsibility.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Marc, the facts of the case belie some of your assumptions. Here is some relevant information (the emphases are mine):
Consensual gay sex in any form is punishable by death in the Islamic Republic of Iran. In Iran homosexuality is illegal, those charged with love-making are given a choice of four deathstyles: being hanged, stoned, halved by a sword, or dropped from the highest perch. According to Article 152, if two men not related by blood are discovered naked under one cover without good reason, both will be punished at a judge's discretion. Gay teens (Article 144) are also punished at a judge's discretion. Rubbing one's penis between the thighs without penetration (tafheed) shall be punished by 100 lashes for each offender. This act is punishable by death if the offender is a non-Muslim. If frottage is thrice repeated and penalty-lashes have failed to stop such repetitions, upon the fourth offence both men will be put to death. According to Article 156, a person who repents and confesses his gay behavior may be pardoned. Kissing with lust (Article 155) is forbidden.
"Outrage", in its release about the gay teens' execution, noted that over 4000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979.
In the case of the two teens hanged in Mashhad: under torture they admitted having gay sex but claimed in their defence that most young boys had sex with each other and that they were not aware that homosexuality was punishable by death. Prior to their execution, the gay teenagers were held in prison for 14 months and severely beaten with 228 lashes. The length of their detention suggests that they committed the so-called offenses more than a year earlier, when they were possibly around the age of 16.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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cossie wrote:
The owerwhelming majority of the world's Muslims are NOT extremists
My comment here is only concerned with the attitude to homosexuals. Cossie, I think that there may well be a great difference in the way Islam is understood by Moslems living in the milieu of a western society, such as England, compared with their co-religionists in non-western countries. I know for a fact that one of the greatest unsung efforts of both the Association for Gays and Lesbians in Tel-Aviv and the Open House in Jerusalem is finding solutions for young Palestinian gays: if they are 'found out' their plight is dire in the extreme and often the only safe solution found by these gay organizations is to get these young Palestinians to a safe haven in Sweden, Germany or France.
In my personal view, to fail to oppose something which is manifestly wrong, even in the knowledge that my single voice will achieve nothing unless it helps to inspire the voics of many thousands of others, would be a total abdication of my sense of moral responsibility.
Amen, Amen, Amen. As the anglo-Irish statesman Edmund Burke is reputed to have said: "The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I really think you need to get a GRIP!!!
It is ILLEGAL TO HAVE GAY SEX IN THAT COUNTRY....
Ragardless of their age, there is no excuse for ignorance of the law.....
They took the risk, and they didn't get away with it...
Those are the pertinant facts...
and these facts do not BELIE any assumptions....
Thankyouverymuch!
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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This discussion was concerning the soverign atate of Iran..... Not the Muslim world..... So dont broaden your comments and stance to accomodate your position. Lets keep focused on the issue of IRAN.
That being said....
Knowing that something is happening and understanding the consequences for doing that thing in a particular area is in NO WAY acceptance of the situation....
It is the meer acknowledgement that is such a condition exists than those who are under the shadow of these consequences should not do the crime....
You make it sound like I am advocating the executions and to that I take great offense! I do NOT appreciate it.....
And the situation in Iran is in NO WAY akin to the occurances in the United States where gays were assaulted and murdered!
Iran is administering the law.
In America it is vigilantism (sp)....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc, I don't know whether you have genuinely misunderstood the thrust of my comments or are just trying to be obdurate.
My original post was not concerned with the legitimacy or otherwise of the fate of those two youngsters. It was concerned with the legitimacy or otherwise of the laws under which they were judged and killed.
You seem to be saying that because the law is what it is that it must ipso facto be a good thing, must be held to be ethical by all foreigners and it must be obeyed under all circumstances by citizens.
If somneone's religion legitimizes cannibalism I will protest in any effective way I can and will not grant it moral legitimacy. If someone's religion legitimizes the hanging of gays I will protest in any effective way I can and will not grant it moral legitimacy. The cannibals and the Moslems are not the only ones who have a moral sense, and I will use my to judge theirs.
As Charles Dickens so effectively noted: sometimes "the law is an ass".
HELL, NO. WE WON'T GO!!!!
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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But it is religion that is used to justify such cruelty, just as (a different) religion tries to prevent the distribution of condoms in Africa and so increases the spread of AIDS or tries to stop abortion even when the woman was raped or perverts the sexual urge in priests with consequential misery and abuse. I think all religions pervert the sexual instinct in an attempt serhaps sometimes to control it for good.
The sexual instinct can surely do some bad things but aren't the things religion does with it even worse?
Anthony
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The legitimacy of the laws within the boarders of a soverign state are left to the persons that enact them.
As outsiders we have a right, indeed an obligation to comment on our opinion regarding these laws.
But that's as far as it goes. It is still their country and we have no right to interfere with them.
Just as I am adamantly opposed to the blanket usurption of the palestinian government that, through an act of outsiders, created your soverign nation.
It's my opinion but I would never do anything to interfere with the soverengty of the present occupiers of that plot of land.
To suggest canabilism.... to bring it to the table... is nothing short of rediculous.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Condoms are not legislated against in those countries in africa. It is pressure from the local religous suthority that is denouncing the use of them....
If one chooses to go against the church and uses a condom they are not going to be prosecuted.
That is the difference between condoms in africa and gay activities in Iran... while Islamic law denounces the activities, it is the legislated law which gays are prosecuted under.....
While they are both like kinds of fruit.... this is clearly trying to compare apples and oranges.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I have done my best, and my best is obviously not good enough. I shall not continue to participate in this altercation since it has become a reductio ad absurdum.
Peace.
J F R
[Updated on: Thu, 15 November 2007 13:52]
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I thought this was a discussion....
I guess I was wrong....
But who am I to argue with the powers that be.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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Your such an......................
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If you are going to say something at least have the gonads to finish what you start.
[Updated on: Thu, 15 November 2007 20:46]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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Give me some time I'm still running thru the "A's"
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Benji........Marc........chill.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Marc, I think you are right and your logic is irrefutable. I also believe that you hate the islamic legislation against homosexuality, and the tyranny of the priesthood of today's Iran, just as much as anyone else here does.
We shouldn't forget that USA and Britain, through their support of the corrupt and brutal shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, and their interest in Iranian oil wells, paved the way for the Iranian revolution and the return to Iran by Ayatollah Khomeini. The Iranian people hated the shah and his secret police enough to approve overwhelmingly in a national referendum the introduction of an islamic republic. Again, western governments didn't care about the sentiments of the people whose natural resources they were stealing. So who are to blame for the islamic laws?
An aside: I sometimes ask myself what Europe would have been like if the Vatican had been allowed to dictate the laws of our countries. But then we had the French revolution and the ideas of the age of enlightenment to prevent that, Gott sei Dank! And tomorrow, the general synod of the Church of Norway will probably decide, with a comfortable majority, to welcome priests living in gay or lesbian partnerships.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Just the response I expected.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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For the sake of this forum, you know I PM'd you
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Top Judge Halts Iran Execution
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/11/111507iran.htm
(New York City) Iran's Chief Justice has halted the execution of 21 year old man who allegedly had sex with another male when the accused was only 13 years old an international human rights group reports.
But Mouloodzadeh's legal problems are not over.
As is usual in Iran when a male is charged with having sex with another person of the same sex the charge against Makvan Mouloodzadeh was listed as rape.
Chief Justice Ayatollah Seyed Mahmoud Hashemi Shahrudi in his ruling described the death sentence to be in violation of Islamic teachings, the religious decrees of high-ranking Shiite clerics, and the law of the land, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission said.
It is believed to be the first time a sodomy conviction had been overturned based on Islamic teaching and followed a letter from the IGLHRC to to the Iranian authorities.
Other human rights organizations, including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the Iranian Queer Organization also pleaded for Mouloodzadeh's life.
At his trial no witness ever accused Mouloodzadeh of rape. Instead, the prosecution witnesses all told the court that their statements during the investigation were either untruthful or coerced.
A review by the IGLHRC of the investigation showed it was riddled with procedural irregularities the group said in a statement.
"This is a stunning victory for human rights and a reminder of the power of global protest," said Paula Ettelbrick, IGLHRC's executive director.
While the chief justice's action blocks Mouloodzadeh from being immediately executed he remains in prison. The ruling sends the case back to the lower court for retrial.
Under Islamic law sodomy is a capital crime punishable by public lashings or hanging.
Some international gay rights groups believe that more than 4,000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979. The government in Tehran has repeatedly denied the reports.
Earlier this week it was learned that during a meeting between British and Iranian politicians a high ranking Iranian cabinet minister acknowledged for the first time that the Islamic state upholds the death penalty for homosexuality.
The disclosure was in marked contrast to remarks in September by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during a speech at Columbia University when he declared there were no homosexuals in Iran.
"In Iran we don't have homosexuals like you do in your country. We do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have it," Ahmadinejad said.
©365Gay.com 2007
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... though I suspect that religion is interpreted more starkly in times of conflict.
My point was simply that it is not the religion, but the manner in which it is interpreted, which creates the problem.
I don't want to fall into my usual trap of ambling off at a tangent, but if you haven't seen 'My Beautiful Laundrette', I do recommend it. We have our racial problems but, if Muslim homophobia were rife here, that film would have provoked battles in the streets - yet it attracted far more praise than criticism.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Damn it...... I was floored by your articulation of the message you sent me.
But to tell you the god's honest truth, I was surprised you could spell it.
Really..... I was.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Marc, you now say:
"This discussion was concerning the sovereign state of Iran..... Not the Muslim world..... So don't broaden your comments and stance to accomodate your position. Let's keep focused on the issue of IRAN."
Quite apart from the fact that I see no reason whatsoever why I shouldn't broaden this or any other discussion if I feel that it is appropriate to do so, you had said in an earlier post in this thread:
"Their religion has its laws. It's just that simple."
There's nothing there to limit your opinions to Iran.
You imply that I have accused you of advocating the executions. I have done no such thing. I merely disagree with your standpoint, which I regard as both illogical and immoral. You have said:
"It doesn't mean that I advocate hanging of boys. It does however give me enough insight that one does not go to the park and get caught in a sexually compromising position. If I were to be visiting Iran I certainly wouldnt go to the park to go cruising for guys. If they knew the risk and they chose to ignore it, then the matter is in their hands."
JFR has already, correctly, pointed out that in the most notorious case, involving the hanging of two boys in Mashhad, the core of the boys defence was that what they did was commonplace among their peers, AND THEY HAD NO IDEA THAT HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY WAS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH. If they didn't know the risk, how could they conceivably have made a decision to ignore it?
You seem to take the view that any law passed by a sovereign state is something to be passively accepted. Why? The United States never displayed any respect for the laws of the communist bloc. In fact, the United States is the premier propaganda broadcaster, extolling the virtues of 'The American Way' to sovereign states across the world. And it works; external pressure DOES lead to domestic change. I very much regret to say that I also reject the reasoning in Tor's post. I accept, as ever, the immorality of the Western world in its unwavering, oil-influenced support of the Shah of Persia. I accept the justification for the groundswell of opposition which launched the Iranian revolution. But I do NOT accept that the ordinary people of Iran realised the extent to which they were forsaking the frying pan for the fire. There was no precedent for the hard-line religious domination introduced by Ayatollah Khomeini - except perhaps in Saudi-Arabia, which was fairly remote from Iran. The fact that the Shah's regime was corrupt does not confer any legitimacy upon the regime which followed. The 'law' in Iran does not necessarily reflect the wishes of the Iranian people, and - in my view - to accept the situation just because it is the 'law' is to abdicate from any sense of morality. The English writer Charles Dickens put into the mouths of one of his characters the opinion the 'The Law is an ass'. And so it may be. The fact that someting is lawful does not mean that it is morally right, and though I do not advocate deliberate disregard for the law, I certainly do advocate opposition by all means within our power to laws - domestic or otherwise - which are without what I conceive to be a moral foundation. Thus I bracket the hanging of homosexual teenagers in Iran with the contempt for international standards shown by the United States in Guantanamo Bay.
And, for that reason, I do not believe that there is any moral distinction between extremist Islamic 'law' in Iran and fundamentalist Christian brutalisation of gays in the United States. Both are the products of religious fundamentalism, both are equally lacking in moral justification, and both are equally deserving of condemnation by those who believe that in this world we have fundamental core ethics which are wholly independent of religious affinity.
Please Marc, if you disagree - as I anticipate you will - don't simply insult me; explain exactly why you don't accept my views.
Your friend - though you may not think so,
Cossie.
(Edited for typos only with no change of content.)
[Updated on: Sat, 17 November 2007 02:53]
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Hear cossie, Hear!
Anthony
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The discussion was about gays in IRAN...
the boys in question were in IRAN...
My referance was to the legal system in IRAN...
Because IRAN takes its legislative cues from the Islamic faith does not extend their their soveriegnty beyond their borders.
You say that ignorance of a law is a viable defence? Not likely.... And I seriously doubt they didnt know the concequences.... While the law might indeed be an ass.... it is nonetheless the law....
As far as your correlation between there and here.... Thats your perogative. It doesn't however have anything to do with what goes on in IRAN...
As far as friendship is concerned, well, I had little doubt until you broached the subject.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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"Ass" is such a simple word Marc, I was surprised you were able to read it
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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You would be surprised what i am able to read......
Thanks for the email....
The headers allow me to read a wealth of information....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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