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Anglicans to halt gay ordination
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7013552.stm
Does the Anglican church think it's still the middle of the 20th century?
In the UK, at least, I am not sure why it does not infringe the rights of a gay person to refuse to allow them to be ordained, when they would otherwise be perfectly suitable in all other respects. Is this something that simply hasn't yet been tested in court, or is there a reason it doesn't apply? (Legal experts -- tBP?)
David
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jack
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Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Deeej wrote:
> Anglicans to halt gay ordination
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7013552.stm
>
> Does the Anglican church think it's still the middle of the 20th century?
>
> Yes they are,
in 10/20 years time all the old thinking cronies that hold office with in the faiths would have moved on. and a new educated team will be in place.
as for the followers they will except the gay/lesbian community because it will be totally the norm to be either/or. the followers of these churches will be made up of different sexualities. mainly due to my other post, where the young kids
are educated on gay sex if not by the school it is by society accepting, in the u.k. anyway.
life is to enjoy.
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jack
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Location: England
Registered: September 2006
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oh my previous post should read gay gender not gay sex.
life is to enjoy.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ordination is not a right..... it is a priviledge bestowed by the church.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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jack said,
>oh my previous post should read gay gender not gay sex.
Being gay is not a gender. It is an orientation. We don't stop being male or female because we are gay.
You are right that hopefully the older generation will be pushed out, as many do have outdated views.
I have two anxieties, though:
i. It is very important that young people in the church don't learn to imitate the attitudes of the older generations, for the purposes of succeeding in the church. If they do, societal progress will not propagate through to those inside it who are responsible for changing policy.
ii. The church continues to take into account the very outdated opinions of some of its offshoots, particularly in Africa. If African opinions don't change (and they may not for a long time) these may end up holding the church back many decades, making it increasingly out of touch and irrelevant to people in liberal societies like the UK. Personally, I see progress as much more important than unity: the Anglican communion is huge and ungainly already. If the African churches wish to break away, that is their decision -- but compromising British and American values for the sake of historical ties is both backward and absurd.
David
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You could say that it is a privilege to be allowed by a proprietor to enter and patronise his shop. But it would still be illegal if he refused to serve you on the basis of your sexuality (in the UK).
The Church of England (the English branch of the Anglican communion) is a national church. If you wanted to rise to certain positions within the British establishment you would need to enter it rather than to find an alternative church that would accept you. This makes it a special case.
[Updated on: Wed, 26 September 2007 11:10] |
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jack
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Location: England
Registered: September 2006
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o.k stand corrected.
life is to enjoy.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Within any church heirarchy policy makers are promoted into positions of policy making by adhering to the status quo.
Dark horses dont make it to the top..... they get sent off to the lowest parishes.
Change within a church requires altering the views of those in power not by waiting for a bright young savior..... after all, Christ has come and gone... and one was surely enough.::-)
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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As a Recovering Christian and a Recovering Episcopalian I can't stop wondering why the Episcopal Church worries so much about The Worldwide Anglican Communion. Since when has the Worldwide Anglican Communion done anything for the Episcopal Chruch except take money from it, so that the African bishops can drive around in new Mercedes?
It's so tempest in a teapot about an outdated and mythical belief system anyway. Who really cares anymore?
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>In the UK, at least, I am not sure why it does not infringe the rights of a gay person to refuse to allow them to be ordained, when they would otherwise be perfectly suitable in all other respects. Is this something that simply hasn't yet been tested in court, or is there a reason it doesn't apply? (Legal experts -- tBP?)
I am certainly no legal expert. But I am aware that there is a reason such a decision could not be decided in a U.S. court of law. The separation of church and state makes religion a very muddy thing here. It was decided that since the Boy Scouts are a religious organization, they are within their legal rights to exclude homosexuals. I'm sure the same would hold true of churches excluding us in any capacity - as clergy or even as members.
I say religion is a muddy legal issue here because there are certain instances where the state can interfere in religious practices. Satanists cannot sacrifice humans or animals, legally, on their alter because there are laws in effect against murder and against inhumane treatment of animals. Until Federal laws are enacted to protect homosexuals against all forms of discrimination, the state has no legal standing. These are my own thoughts on the matter, and I repeat - I am certainly no legal expert.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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Those of you who have become closer friends with me and with whom I have exchanged email know that my best friend is Jewish, and he was the first boy with whom I ever did anything sexual. My girlfriend happens to be Jewish as well. He directed me to this which I thought might be interesting to the general readership.
http://urj.org/ask/homosexuality/
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Very good, thank you for posting that. Also may I point out that at no time did Jesus ever bring up the subject of homosexuality even tho it was very prominant in that time.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Benji
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Registered: August 2007
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I once asked my Rabbi about sin of Sodom & Gommorah, his answer surprised me. He stated that the real sin was that the men of those towns were about to commit the act of rape, against the wishes of the strangers. Of course he is a reformed Rabbi, but still it wasn't the homosexual act, it was the rape that was viewed as a sin.
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In the customes of that time and the place, Hospitality to strangers was damn near a law. If a stranger came into your tent or town and he wasnt offered water and food and a place to rest that was paramount to murder. Even today that is practiced amoung the nomadic tribes. The sin of Sodom and Gamora was inhospitality and had really nothing to do with sex.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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It might interest some to note that, just as there are reformed Jewish congregations, there are reformed Christian congregations as well. I belong to the United Church of Christ U.C.C. whose path in accepting gay men, lesbians and the transgendered has pretty much paralleled reformed Judaism. This is also beginning to happen in other denominations as well. It is a slow process however.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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Paul obviously you have never been south where the independant churches of Christ hang out. They are kissing cousins with the Southern Baptist, oh except that they are the only ones going to heaven. lol
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Benji
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Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
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I would also agree with that!!
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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The church is some kind of exempt organisation. It may discriminate.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I guess I should amend my post to say that such reformation is taking place in the Mainstream denominations. The Fundamentalist groups will obviously be the ones to hold onto their dogmatic beliefs the longest. I am surrounded by Fundamentalists in Idaho as well. They won't change in yours or my lifetime.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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Re: A Reform Jewish Perspective 
