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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Marc raised an interesting point. A pervert can be any age. But some of that also worries me.
Have a look at some situations:- I am 13. I like looking at 13 year old boys. They and I are pre-pubescent.
- I am 13. I like looking at 13 year old boys. They are pre-pubescent, but I got hair and stuff.
- I am 16, and I am over the age of consent (16). I like looking at 13 year old boys. I don't care if they are pre or post pubescent.
- I'm 21. I like looking at anyone younger than me, but probably not under 16 year olds. (the age of consent is 16).
- I'm 30. I like looking at 18+.
- I'm 40. I like looking at 18+.
- I'm 50. I like looking at 18+.
- I'm 30. I like looking at 18+.
- I'm 60. I like looking at 18+.
- I'm 70. I like looking at 18+.
- I'm over 80. I like looking at 18+.
Is there a line to draw? Are there other scenarios you might want to comment on?
[Updated on: Wed, 17 October 2007 16:31]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Is there an age before which one is a not pervert and after which one is? I mean for the same activity.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I have some very good friends who are deeply into S&M role pay. Teacher/student with serious infliction of the school can. Google "Night of the cane" and you get the idea. This is viewed as "harmless fun" by the participants. I view it as "not for me, thanks". Others view it as "a disgusting perversion".
So, what is a perversion? It is different from "I did not consent", that much I am sure of.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I read it that Marc was referring to unethical behaviour, breaching trust, redistributing private information or pictures, coercing people into doing things they would not otherwise do. Actions, intent.
Your situations are all about looking. Per se, there is nothing the matter with that (provided it's subtle). It's only when one crosses the line into action (unethical behaviour) that a line becomes necessary.
David
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Pervs hide behind decency.
What young people should be aware of it that pervs make out to be a friend
then carefully model the young often problem ed young person into a comfort zone.
then make there move , and do further mental damage to a young confused person.
the end result is a person that feels even more distress than they already had.
If look at this site when we respond it is with great care, because a young person is trying to come to terms with his or hers sexuality.
\\They should also be aware that people here may not be all they seem to be,hopefully iam wrong
but always becarefull. just an observation on a very important topic.
life is to enjoy.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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of course not everyone here is as they seem. This is real life.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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They could equally be about doing more than looking. I just postulated a few.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Hi Timmy i was not having a go at the site i was making a point of awareness
point of awareness.
life is to enjoy.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Hmm. You really need to reply to the right place. It tends to make threads hard to read.
As I said, this is real life. Of course not everyone is as they seem. Why should they be?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Some people would say the "half-your-age-plus-seven rule" is a good one to apply where no breach of age-of-consent applies.
Out of all those you listed, however, I find #3 the most troublesome. A 16 year old being attracted to a pre-pubescent... I think as a 16 year old the limit should be at "signs of development". "No hair" might be acceptable, but "no hair", "no ejaculation", "no masturbation" and "no sex drive" to me indicates dangerous ground. A pre-pubescent 13 year old in that sense could only ever be interested in sex on a level of "whoa I'm so grown up, this is naughty, taboo, cool and weird".
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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Perhaps we need to first define what a pervert is. Your opening post seems to imply that someone who looks at pictures or boys at the beach is a pervert and I disagree. Even a desire to do more that look does not make one a pervert; I believe it requires action.
The dictionary seems to support this:
Pervert - a perverted person; especially, a person who practices sexual perversion.
Perversion - something perverted; an abnormal form
- any of various sexual acts or practices deviating from what is considered normal.
The key words here are "practices" and "acts".
The law says it is a crime to possess pictures of nude underage children. Doing so makes one a criminal, but not a pervert.
As for the age difference, who wants to look at the untoned muscles and sagging flesh of the aged? Of course I want to look at younger people with their muscular, vibrant bodies; but that doesn't make me a pervert. Even dreaming of doing more than look, while I stroke my meat in bed, doesn't make me a pervert.
If a 60 year-old man has concentual sex with someone 40 years his junior, does it make him a pervert? I say not. Non-concentual sex by someone of any age with someone of any age is the act of a pervert.
It is actions, not looking or dreaming or desiring, that defines a pervert.
JimB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Your dictionary is behind society, which hates it if men look at boys and loves it if men look at girls. However, I did suggest that you might want to explore other scenarios
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Attraction of whatever kind is irrational. Timmy, I think you are trying to impose a régime of logicality on the illogical. As human beings we are comfortable if we can define and uncomfortable with what we can't.
I once tried to form a set of rules for what I find attractive in a male. The list was there, but it lacked the spark which brought it to life.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You have both got and also missed the point. Substitute "tying to the bed and covering in honey" for "looking at". Are we at perversion now?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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To look is, in and of itself, an action.
It is HOW one looks that creates the perversion.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Surely it's not just the looking: perversion would also have to involve sexual excitement provided by what is seen, together with the stealth and deception which is involved in procuring what is seen.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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Marc wrote > "It is HOW one looks that creates the perversion."
What? You mean one's facial expression? The thoughts in one's head while they look?
This reminds me of a time when a friend and I had a political discussion where we were in complete disagreement. Afterward, as we watched TV, he had a deep scowl on his face and I thought he was extremely mad at me. That is until I realized that he was actually squinting because he didn't have his glasses on.
As the saying goes, "Action make the man", and I say that actions make the pervert also.
An interesting question: how often do you hear the word pervert applied to women? It seem predominantly, almost exclusively, applied to men.
JimB
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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I agreee actions make the pervert, your last question kinda threw me, I can't recall any story of a women being accused of being a ped. or perv. I have heard of mothers who mistreated or sexually abused their son/daughters but they were deemed mentally ill, and usually were!
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Men have penises, thus are not to be trusted. Women are allowed to do with children things that men are not (certain supervision in school changing facilities, for example). But women have been prosecuted for having sex with minors, both male and female.
Interestingly they seem not to be called perverts. I wonder if a male thus accused my bring a sexual discrimination suit.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Looking is an action though.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Re: Pigeonholing perverts 
Re: Pigeonholing perverts 
