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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... and it doesn't always travel well, especially across the Atlantic - and that's true whether travelling from East to West or West to East.
I'm not suggesting that British humour is better than American humour - just that it's different.
One reason for the longevity and success of this forum is the eclectic mix of contributors, young and old, from most parts of the English-speaking world. Yes, there are misunderstandings, and occasionally someone gets temperamental, but it's very much the exception rather than the rule. And, as in any community. you eventually become aware of the - shall we say 'peculiarities'? - of the other contributors.
JFR is incurably pedantic - it must be true, because that's what he told me! - but his pedantry is always delivered with tongue firmly in cheek. I have never, ever, seen him make a post which was intended to be hurtful, but I can see how it might appear so to someone unfamiliar with his humour. Equally, he is well aware that when I post insulting remarks about his pedantry, my tongue is so firmly in my cheek that it sometimes gets stuck in my ear canal. Insulting humour is not an exclusively British institution, but it is much used by Brits. I used it last night when suggesting that Jason had rock between his ears; he knows (or at least I hoper he knows!) that I didn't mean a word of it.
Nigel is a linguist, and his humour is often based upon word play - 'cunning linguist' in a recent post was a classic example. [Note - if anyone didn't get it, I'm not explaining - it's not the sort of word we use on this board!]
Readers will by now have realised that this post is in essence a response to one of Eldon's posts on M's 'I just remembered something' thread. For my part, I am very happy with the contributions of Jonny, Eldon, Curtis and all the other younger posters who have become involved in recent months, and I don't want them to feel the least bit unwelcome. This is, I suppose, a plea for a bit more tolerance and understanding on all sides. I can see where Eldon is coming from [I have 20/20 transatlantic vision] but I don't think he was justified in suggesting that maliciousness plays a part in the responses to which he refers.
I have spent much of my life interpreting legislation and translating it into intelligible (though admittedly British!) English. From this, I have learned the importance of clear and unambiguous communication (so I love using ambiguity to get a laugh) and the value of accuracy. By and large, I don't initiate pedantic exchanges - in fact, I rarely make 'new' posts - but if I see what I regard as a misuse of language in an exisiting exchange, out comes the trusty Shorter Oxford Dictionary, and the gloves are off - but never with the intention to offend, and always with zeal to milk any available humour to the last drop.
So - pretty please! - let's all try to be a touch more tolerant and understanding. I know that American humour is crap, but it's not their fault - it's a legacy inherited from their rebellious ancestors.
Now let's all join together in a stirring rendition of 'Land of Hope and Glory' so we Brits can get nostaslgic about the days when we were top nation.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Can we do that over a glass of Bells.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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Insulting humour can be very funny between close friends. Insulting humour between those not close friends can lead to a fight. People looking in on this board have no idea that the person being insulted is a close friend to the lambaster. They just see this board as a not too friendly place. I agree that the humour of the American television and movie writers is crap and it goes world wide. But, I know that the humour of the adverage yank is wonderful and we do a great job of making fun of ourselves, but won't stand by speechless while strangers insult us with their put-downs however funny the strangers think they're being.
Most come here to express themselves about one thing or another and there is no reason to correct their grammer or spelling. If there message isn't clear just ask questions don't give lessions. We are here to enjoy ourselves and to be welcoming friends to those in need of friends.
[Updated on: Thu, 01 November 2007 07:24] |
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Land of soap and water
Mother's in the bath.
Father's peeping through the keyhole.
Can't you hear him laugh?
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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I think that both Cossie and Uncle Jim have expressed good points. We need to be more understanding; at the same time, if you don't know someone well, it is difficult to know if their insult is done humourously or not.
Then there are those who seem intent on attacking; you express yourself and get labmlasted, simply for expressing your opinion. More than once I have refrained from posting a reply by adhearing to the concept "If you don't have something good to say, don't say anything".
The humourous insults are one thing, the naked attacks I see here are something else.
JimB
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... to the best of my recollection I have never initiated criticism of a poster's spelling or grammar, but I can't resist plunging in when an issue has already developed and someone makes a statement about linguistic usage which I believe to be wrong.
I was lucky enough to receive a very good classical education which was entirely state-funded - if that hadn't been the case, my family certainly wouldn't have been able to pay for it. I don't regard myself as better than my contemporaries who didn't have the same chances; luckier, perhaps, bur certainly not better.
I love the English language; its origins, development and relationship to other languages have fascinated me since my schooldays. I don't pretend to be infallible, but I do know quite a bit about the subject. Yes, I cringe a little at poor grammar or incorrect spelling, but I don't blame the perpetrators, I blame the politicising of the educational system, and particularly the mantras of the closing decades of the last century which held that creativity was everything and rules of grammar were unimportant.
The legacy is a sharp decline in literacy but I see no evidence whatsoever of a corresponding rise in creative ability.
English changes faster than we think; the number of new words added in the past century is measurable not in hundreds but in thousands - maybe even in tens of thousands. Let us not forget that teenagers were first described as such as recently as 1941! Grammar changes, too; starting a sentence with a conjunction (and. but, etc) was a hanging offence until about thirty years ago. But it isn't today.
There is, of course, a big difference between organic changes and straightforward errors. Between British and American English there lots of organic changes; for example, the British English word 'kerb' (edging to a pavement, or should I say sidewalk?) has in American English been subsumed into the word 'curb', which is pronounced in the same way, but in British English the words are distinct - 'curb' means 'restrain', or an implement used for that purpose. By contrast, those who have read any quantity of the gay literature on the net will have noticed that on many occasions the verb 'peak' is often wrongly used for other verbs with the same pronunciation. 'To peak' means to reach a maximum level, but when the meaning is 'to take a surreptitious look' the spelling should be 'peek', and when the meaning is 'to arouse' {interest, curiosity etc) the spelling should be 'pique'. So far as I'm aware, these words have not been merged in American English, so mixing them up is a straightforward error. It would only become an organic change if the bulk of the population - and specifically the quality press - were to adopt the revised spellings.
OK, I've just realised that I'm off on my hobby-horse again, so I'll wind this up. The essential point is that to criticise someone's spelling or grammar is unacceptable rudeness - but when someone specifically claims that this or that construction or meaning is correct - and I consider that they are wrong - a dissenting opinion is perfectly legitimate. After all, if we all held ther same views, life would be intolerably boring.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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cossie wrote:
>and particularly the mantras of the closing decades of the last century which held that creativity was everything and rules of grammar were unimportant.
The legacy is a sharp decline in literacy but I see no evidence whatsoever of a corresponding rise in creative ability.<
There is a parallel to this in George Orwell's (in real life another Blair) '1984'. The invention of Newspeak was aimed at the restriction of thought by denying the people the power of expression. If people's ability to express themselves and/or create is restricted they will be more compliant to the powers-that-be.
Hugs
Nigel
[Updated on: Fri, 02 November 2007 09:08]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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>The essential point is that to criticise someone's spelling or grammar is unacceptable rudeness - but when someone specifically claims that this or that construction or meaning is correct - and I consider that they are wrong - a dissenting opinion is perfectly legitimate.
Excellent point. People of many different educational levels make posts here. To make unsolicited grammatical and spelling corrections is not only rude but in many cases cruel. You are telling the person, "I am showing you my superiority over you." Please people, have the consideration to keep your comments leveled towards the topic and the ideas expressed, not the means of expression.
I know of one youth who enjoys perusing this forum but will never, ever post here. His spelling is poor and he doesn't have the capacity to correct it. He was banned from one gay forum because he was felt to be an embarrassment by the other youth posting there. It is a bad state of affairs when people need to feed their own egos rather than extend love and compassion. I don't see that happening here in a deliberate way, but sometimes we need to think twice before hitting that "submit" button.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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In one way or another, every poster here feeds his or her personal ego's.
As much as any or everyone insists otherwise... Like it or not...
It's true....
But then we are.... or at least some of us are.... gay.... and ego is what makes that rainbow flag wave.... Doesn't it....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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