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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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There are strongly held views each way. The strongest held views are, oddly, not the religions that practice it, but the rather dogmatic folk who either insist on or insist against circumcision.
The really peculiar thing is that it is a coming of age rite in so many cultures, designed to show how manly the boy is while having his foreskin cut away. "Not flinching" is highly prized.
The major difficulty is the view that the circumcision is a covenant with God (Have I got that right JFR, thsi is what it is, I think?) held by Judaism.
I've no idea what the Islamic view is, but they are ritual circumcisers, too.
The USA was pushed into the act by Messrs Kellog (the cereal) and Graham (the Golden one), who pushed it as snake oil to cure all ills, and, unpleasantly, as a cure for masturbation, performed as a moral punishment.
Those who have been cut say that their sex is as good as anyone's. But they can't know that, it's a statement of faith.
Those who are intact say they have better sex. They can't know either.
A few of us can know. I do know the difference in masturbation before and after the rather unpleasant and highly painful surgery to remove my foreskin. Orgasms were better before and simpler to achieve and delay. I've never had penetrative sex with a foreskin!
Removal of the frenulum in most, but not all, men dulls sexual sensation severely. It did in mine. I have direct before/after comparison there. US circumcisers love removing the frenulum in the "high and tight" cut. Regrettably that also can give erection pain because the skin is far too tight
Adherents of the circumcised penis's aesthetics forget that those with a foreskin have a convertable! I saw "Naked Boys Singing" some years ago in NYC. All the cast appeared cut. And then one foreskin lowered. He was making use of the convertability of his penis. Aesthetics are this met for both sides.
I hope I've managed this without ranting, thus far.
The rant starts here. Circumcision is genital mutilation. Doing it to a child is abuse. Do it to yourself with proper medical consent with pleasure. If a deity wants people to mutilate their genitals then he needs to redesign the body himself.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I say if this so called diety needs forskins let him do the harvesting himself.
All I see is it is practiced as another reason for a buffet....
Otherwise, there is no logical reason much less justification to remove the first 5-6 inches of a persons dink.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I'm not circumcised.
Until not very long ago the foreskin was over-tight. Coupled with complete inexperience over technique, this made getting anywhere near a sexual climax impossible. Unfortunately I didn't know that the problem lay in that direction for several years. The complete absence of *useful* medical advice on the matter -- I consulted two urologists and an endocrinologist and all three assured me that the problem was psychological, which I now know for certain it was not -- led me to conclude that there was, for some reason, something wrong with me (either psychologically or in a rare physiological way).
If I had been circumcised, I believe I would never have had this problem. I can't say that with certainty, but I think it's pretty likely, given that the resolution of the tightness very swiftly led to the resolution of the other problem.
If that is true, I wonder sometimes if it would have been better for me to have been circumcised early in life. There's a good probability it would have made my teenage years easier. I don't know that the benefit of a foreskin is worth all the bother of worrying -- nay, knowing -- that there was something wrong with me. Even today, aside from providing a certain level of protection, it doesn't have much more use to me -- it tends to get in the way, and I don't get much sensation out of it.
The problem with these thought experiments, of course, is that you can't take everything into account. Suppose I had been circumcised. I might well feel angry at "missing out" on the foreskin -- especially considering that most children in this country are not circumcised. I would not know that a foreskin would have caused me all this bother.
I accept that my case is not usual, and that, for most people, a foreskin is an improvement. Most importantly, I also believe in a person's right to choose. A baby can't give consent.
It's certainly true that the whole wretched situation would have been avoided if the doctors had been a bit more on the ball -- or possibly if I'd had a chance to learn more from my peers at school than I did.
Ah, well.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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This is a generalisation, thus there will be, and you may be one, exceptions to it.
Most boys fiddle with their little willies, often much to the embarrassment of matron aunts. The fiddling is pleasant and it leads to a loosening of the foreskin. There comes a point when it retracts.
A major note of caution is that forcing the retraction is unwise. The surface of the glans and the lining of the inner foreskin do not start out at birth as two separate membranes. There is a technical term, but the essence is that the two membranes extend "down" the penis and they separate over time, but that they are one "fused" organ at birth, albeit one that will separate into two if forced.
So fiddling kind of massages the "unit" until it separates naturally, of its own accord. Similarly the pseudo-sphinctre at the tip gradually learns to accommodate the glans's egress through fiddling.
You are right that a circumcised boy has none of these issues to worry about.
Instead he had that membrane ripped assunder and the foreskin chopped off. he has (generalisation) to use lubricant to masturbate whereas you may choose to but do not (0.9 probability).
We discussed genitals when I was 8,9,10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 etc. Was Cavaliers wondered how roundheads masturbated with no foreskin, so we asked!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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in the 1800's P.T. Barnum opened a museum of odd and eccentric wonders in New York City...
Much to his pleasure, the establishment enjoyed capacity crowds with lines formed around the block to gain entry.
In a briliant move to affect some degree of crowd control he placed the picture of a large bird on a door accompanied by a sign which read, "EGRESS, This Way"
Upon going through the door one found oneself looking at the exterior of the building.
Who was right? Who was wrong?
[Updated on: Thu, 22 November 2007 21:34]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I am, of course, aware that I am unusual, and though it might have saved me a lot of bother, I don't for a moment suggest that all children ought to be circumcised just in case someone like me is among them. It's just an odd thought -- if I'd been born in another time or another country, I might never have had the problem.
Tim, you say,
>Instead he had that membrane ripped assunder and the foreskin chopped off. he has (generalisation) to use lubricant to masturbate whereas you may choose to but do not (0.9 probability).
I appreciate that's a general 'you', but, in my case, I have never managed to get anywhere without lubricant. With the foreskin there is little sensation, but without it the glans is far too sensitive. Lubricant strikes a happy medium.
Is that unusual? Another anomaly? Bad technique?
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I can't answer you for sure. We need an intact chap to advise you. The thing is, what works, works.
It is possible that your foreskin is damaged in some way by many years of non retraction, but you need a comparison yardstick. It's equally possible that yours was never going to be much fun. Only you can tell, and even that is a challenge.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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You have said many times that the foreskin is the most pleasurable part of the penis, and I've always been a bit bemused. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a piece of skin, with a primarily protective role. On the other hand, the glans is very, very sensitive to the touch and it makes sense that it would be the focus of sensation.
My foreskin was not non-retractable for many years. It was only non-retractable when erect. I've been able to clean it, etc. for as long as I can remember. There is no evidence of damage. That was part of the problem -- as far as I can tell, it was perfectly normal, when flaccid, on visual examination by a doctor.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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We are all, fortunately, very different. You may simply have a limited nerve supply.
It is not skin, though. the tip has a junction in the same way that your lips do. Outside is skin. Inside is mucosa. It has a very definite function, which is to protect and keep moist the glans penis. That is also mucosa, not skin.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Several years ago, a Rabbi friend was getting on in years and decided to retire. Having spent many of his years as a moile (sp) and being the frugal man he was, he had ammassed a rather large sollection of shmucks.
When he announced his retirement the congregation formed a committee as congregations do, and they deliberated at length as to what would be an appropriate emblem that would signify his many years of devoted service to the community.
Upon much debate the committee decided to secret away his three mayonaise jars of shmucks and took them to the local leather crafter. Whereupon he went to work designing a beautifully hand crafted wallet.
On the evening of the Rabbi's retirement party much food, music, dance and overall celebration accompanied by speeches from all manner of civic and religious leadre from miles around culminated in the presentation of the beautiful wallet.
The Rabbi was beyond words as the wallet was of such craftmanship as to literally take ones breath away... when the Rabbi was overcome with emotion his nervousness caused him to rub the soft leather for some degree of comfort and the entire assemblage was amazed as the wallet slowly grew to the size of a hefty attache case.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Timmy wrote:
>…you need a comparison yardstick.<
lol - who's kidding who(m)?
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Twit. Inches are much smaller the closer to London you get.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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trekkerpacker
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Getting started |
Registered: November 2007
Messages: 14
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Mon, 28 April 2008 12:22] |
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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LOL
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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For me, there's nothing more erotic that watching a guy get hard who hasn't been circumcised. I love how it like swells up inside the skin, then starts to lift out from his body, and the head gradually emerges. Then the foreskin stops retracting when it's like halfway down the head of his cock, and that is so wicked cool looking. If you hold his cock and bring the skin back up you can smear some of his precum stuff around under the sheath and it drives him wild. Then try sticking your tongue down and moving it around between his sheath and the head, and that drives him wild too. At least it drives a certain blond farm boy I know nearly crazy.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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See! A convertable!
I agree. You get twice as much fun for your money with an uncut one.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I have to agree that the "high and tight" cut is particularly barbaric.
I don't know the name of the technique used to circumcise me, but it involved rolling the skin upwards and cutting off the "excess". My frenulum is still intact. While soft I have enough loose skin to cover my glans, while hard there is some skin movement possible, although generally the glans is fully exposed.
Ryan was cut in a similar way to me, but a little tighter, he has a scar or "skin tag" near his frenulum where the cut was not clean. He seems to have less sensitivity than me (although it is hard to judge).
I don't mind the technique that was used on me, I like my cock exactly how it is, including how it was cut. I think that if circumcision IS to continue (there seems few reasons to) at least the practice should be standardised and carried out by experts rather than regular GPs. If people are to be cut, they should be cut like me.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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There is no "excess". That's the whole point, pun intended.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Uncut boys are awesomely sexy 
