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I realized that being with som1 doesnt guarantee hapiness...finding my "destined-2b-with" does...It doesnt matter how long I've been alone, how long I've hoped or how long I've waited...There's no such thing as a perfect love story...heartaches will always be a part of loving...
Though not perfect, if that love is meant for me, it'll stick with me until the end...no matter how tough it gets, no matter how long...
Far from perfect but real...
yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi
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Hey there XteveKyo,
I did not get a chance to say hello, so hi and warm regards from South Africa.
This post made me stop and think about a lot of thing. But you are so right in saying that real love is enduring, and everlasting. Thus making it perfect, well in my eyes it does.
I have often said that I would rather be alone, than waste my time on a dead-end relationship. Life is way too short to be wasting time on anything.
So thanks for that, you made my day in some strange way.
Mike
"And so the lion fell in love with the Lamb"
"What a stupid Lamb"
"What a sick, masochistic lion"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think you've expressed it very well.
Love is wonderful. Returned love is amazing. Continued love means acceptance of imperfections as a part of the person, for they will not change. Partnership means hard work at continuing the friendship as well as the love.
We do not always like those whom we love, we are not always likable. But real love conquers temporary dislike, and we stay, by choice, together.
Finding that person means casting your net in waters where fish swim, and swimming in waters where others fish.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Hehe...ur welcome! Im glad it did...
Nice to meet u 2 Mike...;-D
I've always thought the same way as u did my friend..that i'll never ever get a chance to be with som1(somtimes i still do)..that id rather be single for the rest of my life...no attachments,no commitments...many times i thought ive come to the point when my heart finally stopped beating for love and that it has grown numb to pain..u know wat i mean?...almost took my own life coz of this...U see, love is something i dont just throw aside...this is probably my greatest weakness..coz everytime i do fall inlove, i cry, i suffer, i become weak...it really sucks that i know i have so much love to offer but no one to share it with.
Sigh...Man im so pathetic arent I?..heheh...
But you know i think God has a special purpse for me...for all of us. I maybe alone but im not letting go of His hand coz i believe he may be holding a special person on the other hand to let us hold each other at the right time...
Steve
[Updated on: Wed, 12 December 2007 10:48]
yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi
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Thnx! it's just that i do not know WHERE to swim let alone know where to fish... I mean there are LOTS of gay guys here but they'r all too effeminate or just too sexually driven...It's quite disappointing that it is sooooo difficult to find a guy who isn't just interested in sex..not that i have a problem with sex.. but er u know what i mean...hehe...
i want some1 who's genuine...
[Updated on: Wed, 12 December 2007 11:06]
yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If you expect to find someone you had better get past the fact that gay guys want just sex and act like gurlz....
It goes with the territory....
Add to that the fact that they are not only looking for sex but sex with the cutext guy they can find..... That would place you into the queue and all you need to do is look down the line..... and then up the line to learn where you stand in the pecking order....
Harsh perhaps.... Reality sometimes is....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Well, Marc grew up in his cabbage patch, and I grew up in mine, but I don't see things in quite the same way.
I have to admit that Marc has more experience than I do; he's spent his life among the gay community, whereas I pulled out after 15 years - though I still have several gay friends, so I keep my ear to the ground and my nose to the ... well, we needn't go into that!
Just as with any other group of people, there are all sorts and conditions of gays. It's true that a fair number of gay guys are effeminate to a greater or lesser degree; it's a trait which is in some way related to the gay condition. The stereotype queens may or may not be part of this sub-group; some act that because being outrageous - and I don't mean that in any critical way! - fulfils some other psychological need. In any event, there are lots of guys in the sub-group who are not queens, but have some instinctive feminine characteristics - something in the way they walk, perhaps, or in their facial expressions - but they don't behave in an 'in-your-face' way. I have never felt any sexual attraction towards queens, though I've been friends with a few over the years, but I wouldn't dismiss someone from the 'non-queen' group simply because of the occasional feminine characteristic - it includes some of the nicest guys I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. An unconscious tendency to walk with a bit of a wiggle often comes in a package of characteristics which also includes gentleness, caring, commitment and lots of other good things; don't dismiss someone for something they can't really help - you never know what you may be missing.
It's true that a lot of obviously gay guys are looking for sex, sex and more sex, with as many different victims as possible. I use the word 'victim' deliberately; the 'Wham! Bang! Thank you, Sam' routine is not designed for 'Sam's' benefit. I'd advise anyone to avoid there guys like the plague unless they are desperate for sex; they sertainly won't find love in that direction.
But around the periphery there are lots of guys like XK, who are looking for something deeper. That doesn't mean that they expect to find what they're looking for in their first date, but they are likely to be attracted by personality as much as by physical appearance. So how do you find them? Well, don't rely on gaydar; it's much exaggerated and highly unreliable! It's certainly hard knowing where to fish, but keep your rod ready at all times! (Nigel, I bet your mind's in the gutter again!)
Looking at the problem from XK's point of view, the most important thing to remember is that the guys you're looking for probably feel much the same way as you do - so the pulsating gay club (Nigel, that's quite enough!) is probably NOT the best place to fish. But you DO need to fish - even if you put your hand into the hand of your God, He may expect you do do most of the work for yourself. I've no idea of the social scene where you are, but a good basic strategy is to frequent places like gay bookshops, bars and cafes as often as you can. Beware of old men in dirty brown raincoats, and anyone dripping excess saliva while browsing the bookshelves, but in the nature of things there's a better-than-average chance that guys who are on their own are (a) gay, and (b) not in a current relationship. Even better is the kind of gay club that doesn't pulsate(!) - college, university or any other kind of clubs for gay people - especially those of the kind NW has mentioned in posts here, which arrange social events allowing members to get to know each other without the pressure of feeling that every word spoken is part of the choreography of looking for sex.
XteveKyo, I hope this post may at least give you something to think about. Enjoy your fishing, and I hope that - sooner or later - you'll land a catch that will last for a lifetime.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Teue enough, there are always those rare and few exceptions....
But that will give you something to think about while you actually are standing in that line....
It is good to dream of extacy.... But it is better to be prepared for the realitles....
In other words.....
Hope for the best.... but expect the worst....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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About those alleged rare and few exceptions... We seem to be populated with them here with no-one of the more outrageous sort.
Doesn't seem to me to be that few.
That which one does not see is present nonetheless.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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And then there are those that actually live in the gay community....
those that see what is happening....
Not in the virtual, make believe world, but in the real one out beyond screen....
I think it is important to keep the virtual world separate from the real one that sits just beyond the front door.....
It is just a matter of practicle application.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Marc wrote:
> If you expect to find someone you had better get past the fact that gay guys want just sex and act like gurlz....
>
> It goes with the territory....
>
> Add to that the fact that they are not only looking for sex but sex with the cutext guy they can find..... That would place you into the queue and all you need to do is look down the line..... and then up the line to learn where you stand in the pecking order....
>
> Harsh perhaps.... Reality sometimes is....
First i want to say that for the most part, most gay guys can be extreemily superficial in that they seek perfection in a partner, which just doesn't exist.... so they tend to keep moving on to the next best thing in a long miserable line of short lived sex orientated relationships.....
However, that doesn't mean that like Cossie said, there arent nice people out there... Whai I am definatly saying is that they are alot fewer and they take alot more work to find, to get to know, and to form a meaningful relationship.
But just like in the heterosexual world, there are trade offs.... Your perfect match probably wont be drop dead gorgeous... at least to club standards... he might be a little pudgy or poorly endowed with social skills.... But like the saying goes.... the best and most loyal gods come from the pound, not the westminister kennel show.....
Loke cossie, and others have said before.... coffee shops, book stores, social groups, churches that are accepting of gays, even colleges are good places to find real time real nice real gay guys.
It isnt going to be easy.... and there will be disappointment along the way.... but one doesnt cook without the occasional burn on the thumb either.... and in the end, the results are worth the risks...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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However, "living in the gay community" is self ghettoisation. One may be gay, find a partner, and live a happy and fulfilled life without ever once considering one's self to be a member of a gay community. Or one may choose to be a gay community member.
That was very different when we were young Then it appeared that it was "gay and in the gay community" or "gay and hide in the rest of the world". The choice is by no means as stark today, depending on the nation one lives in
There were exceptions, of course, back when we were young, but the whole environment was entirely different then.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I'm talking about the here and now..... what was then well..... was then....
And now, in these times, if a person is out, looking for a match, one must be in the community to do it.....
Now.... when I say gay community I do not mean pink street......
It is the fact that one is out and among people who are gay.....
Not online..... where being gay are just 3 litters typed on a screen......
In the real world gay means being who one is..... Not who you one is expected to be.....
And refering to ghettoization is frankly insulting...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Im 17...in college...and a closet case(AAARRRGHHHHHHH)...i was thinkng of coming out on my 18th b-day...that's like 2 months from now... but then again maybe that isnt such a good idea...
yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi
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XteveKyo, come out to those you are comfortable coming out to. You will probably need to be "out" in social situations so that potential suitors aren't left wondering. But do follow the advice given here on appropriate places to search for Mr. Right. Stay away from the meat markets (the gay bars and discos) that are designed for those seeking one night stands. Do some web browsing for social spots or clubs for gay young people in your area. Your own college should have such an organization. Other nearby colleges could have clubs as well and probably won't exclude you because you aren't from their college. Indeed, explore the book stores with gay literature and find the gay coffee shops.
I love the fact that you are spiritual and willing to put yourself in God's hands. But that doesn't free you from the responsibility of searching. God will help you if you are willing to help yourself. He will make the openings but you have to find them.
I was too afraid to make the search when I was your age. Had I been more accepting of my nature then perhaps I could have had the wonderful relationship you are searching for. I think good things are headed your way - because you are willing to make them happen. I will not wish you luck because it is not luck but dedication and hard work that will make your dreams a reality. Make it happen son.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I did not use the term as an insult. I'm sorry if you feel it was intended thus.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Hi ya
if you move in gay circles then i would say perhaps you could come out and be noticed.
If you dont then in some countries it is not accepted to be gay.
and i feel it could cause you distress only you know this.
At the end of the day you should feel comfortable, does it matter really whether your in or out.
I have gay /bi/ str8 friends and love them all although not sexually.
I think its cool to be gay/bi at least in the u.k
so if it doesnt work where you are move. and once again it is my opinion for any one that does not agree with my views.
life is to enjoy.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... in the light of what's been said over the last 24 hours.
I agree absolutely with what Marc said in his 'reconsidered' post (the one timed at 11.06 GMT on 13 December - you need to convert to your own time zone to find the time actally shown on your screen), and I also agree with several of the points he has made in his other posts.
In particular, I think he's right about the 'gay community'. I don't meant this in any offensive way, and I appreciate the therapeutic value of this site for thase who, in retrospect, wish that they had explored the gay side of their character when they were young but, for whatever reason, failed to do so. It's good to come here and talk freely. But that's something very different from being young, gay and hoping to find a life partner. In logistic terms, it's next door to impossible for young gays to find someone to love UNLESS they move in gay circles; the handful of spontaneous relationships developing between guys who are already friends is very much the exception rather than the norm. I don't think that the basic premise has changed much over the years. You don't have to be 'out' to join the gay community, but the mere fact that you move in gay circles means that there is always a risk of being outed. In the UK, in a perverse sort of way, the risk is greater now than it was when I was young, simply because increased tolerance, both legal and social, has led to greater visibility. When I was in my late teens I often visited a gay pub in Main Street, Keswick; in those days, the techniques employed to get into the pub unobserved could be compared to a clandestine military operation! But, in simplistic terms, it's as true now as it was then: if you want to meet gay people, you gotta go where the gay guys go.
There's another dimension, too. If you're actually living in a gay relationship, you need to spend at least part of your time among other gays; it's a sort of safety valve, which helps you cope with the rest of your life. I don't see it as 'ghettoisation'; it's just the natural human instinct to be part of something larger than your own relationship. For 15 years, beginning in my early teens, I was part of a gay community, and I've felt the need to stay in touch ever since. Posting here is great, and I enjoy it very much, but it isn't the same as talking face-to-face, and - with very few exceptions - I've never been made to feel unwelcome just because I chose a different life path.
This hasn't been as brief as I meant it to be, but - in a nutshell - don't ever underestimate the problems of being a gay teenager. They are very, very real!
Two points to close with. First, Marc and I have different personalities, so it's not surprising that I disagree with his rather pessimistic expectations. One of our regular posters (Saben?) has a tag-line which reads something like 'Shoot for the moon; that way, even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.' That seems a pretty good maxim to me. I see no reason why XteveKyo - or anyone else in his situation - shouldn't look for his ideal partner. On the way, he may meet someone very different, and find - like so many before him - that love changes everything. Let it happen, but if you expect the worst, then that's the best you're likely to get.
And finally - and I acknowledge absolutely that with short, stubby fingers like mine my typescripts would be horrendous if i didn't check and double-check the result - A typo in Marc's post really made my day. He said:
"But like the saying goes.... the best and most loyal gods come from the pound, not the Westminister Kennel Show....."
Boy, does that offer a whole new perspective on religion!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Oh yes, Cossie! Oh yes.
It was easier, in a mad way when I was young and all homosexual acts were illegal yet everyone knew lots of homosexuals and they were amazingly well tolerated. Now, if you can't stand the 'gay scene' you have to find a social support group such as Gaywest (the Bristol-Bath one. Which is full of boring old farts like me but which is the only way I know of meeting people without too much pressure to begin with.
Of course if your college or university has a ggaysoc or gay-straight alliance that is also a good place to make friends without too much pressure.
Love
Anthony
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