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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The name is nothing about whether the board is safe to open in the office, at school, or with parents looking over one's shoulder.
I named it in the hope, and certainly with the desire, that the folks who come here could feel that it was safe to speak here, provided they have circumstances that they may post to or read from a message board such as this.
I named it, not to lull people into a false sense of security, but in the hope, the expectation, but not the guarantee, that young people would not be propositioned by older folk. Or vice versa, come to that.
I named it because I wanted those who feel outside society, the hurt, the abused, the lonely, to be able to express themselves in a relative place of safety.
I know that others may choose different interpretations. I can't prevent that; we are all people. I simply wanted you all to know what I mean by the name of this place.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I guess the false sence of security and the risk of opening a post and displaying something unappropriate goes under the classification of collateral damage....
Acceptable losses, that sort of thing....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I wish you would not do that, truly I do.
When something is good, albeit imperfect, you pick at the imperfections and appear to try to alter the entire fabric of the thing to be congruent with your perception of the imperfection. It is not congruent with the alleged imperfection, nor will it be; not now, not ever; never.
I'm not saying it's good because I built it. I'm sayimg it's good because other people say it is good.
No-one introduced any concept of collateral damage before you did. And the answer is that I care sufficiently to regret any caused by (eg) an inappropriate picture, but not to police for them unless the picture itself is or appears to be unlawful.
Go to a gay site and open the forum and you tend to expect it not to be office or school friendly. In the same manner that you would not open teenvixensluts.com you would, or should, think twice about opening this site.
I am not going to turn this into a PG forum. It is not going to happen.
Equally I am not going to allow it to become filled with nudes.
I'm really unhappy about the way you have raised a slur on the place. I find it upsetting, unsettling, and unfriendly. I am also unhappy that this is a persistent thing that you do. So you now understand why it is named as it is named. I don't mind if this does not meet your own definition, because I am the one who named it.
I am resigned to a long set of posts over this simple thing. The only good thing about that is that there is more content for search engines to index and so we may get more people in pain come to see whether this place will meet their needs or not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Hi
Timmy you are aware that the site does exactly as it was intended,
to offer a place of safety for people to chat to a large circle, who give a vast amount of opinion, on what ever the person or young person wants to talk about.
it is then for them to take what they want to.
Yes ok nudity is not needed but there was no malice intended by the poster.
I'm not going to praise you because its not needed if you closed the site today ,you would have done so much for so many people me included.
Have a great Christmas you and your family.
Regards Jack
hey my opinion.
life is to enjoy.
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I have remained out of this for some time and had no itentions of getting involved. Timmy, the site does what you intended and does it well. I know that if something was posted that may be unlawful you would remove it. Marc, peoples idea of what porn is varies accross the board. I actually know someone who thinks that men in speedos is porn. I didnt get to see the pictures in question but I gather it was to have been humorous and was done without alluding to sex. The male body is a beautiful thing and Im not talking about arousing sexual intrest but it is a thing of beauty. By your definition the Statue of David would be porn. The famous fountain with the boy peeing in the water would be porn. The artist painting a nude portrate of someone male or female would be porn. Time and again the courts have ruled that a nude body done as an artistic endevour are not porn. A Child old enought to cruise on the internet is old enough to have seen a nude body, either his or her mom or dad or brother or sister. It is not going to phycicly destroy the child to see a nude body. It is the intention of the nude , sex, obviously aroused, inviting for sexual activity, that would be questionalble.
Marc, I understand your desire to protect the young ones. Most of them know more than you and I ever did at their age. We cant keep them shielded from life. What we can do is try and protect them from preditors, from the porn artis, from the harms of the world.
Maybe I explained myself ok, maybe not. Keep on Keeping on Timmy, your doing good.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Fine, I relent.... Frontal nuidity is a good thing....
Everyone enjoy....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I don't think that was the point, you know, Marc.
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When I was young the children's books of choice were like "Swallows and Amazons". In that book (and series), which is mostly about children camping and sailing, no-one ever pees or shits or is naked.
A week or two ago I read "Kiss" by Jaqueline Wilson a respected children's author, in which the heroine has her first period and the 'hero' kisses his best friend on a school outing to Kew Gardens and is rejected and then outed at school by said ex-best friend.
People's sensibilities about this vary hugely. When I walk down the road (as always, dressed in running tights, I frequently meet young Muslim (I guess) women who cast their eyes down and don't ever look me in the face. Young men are sometimes embarrassed and avoid catching my eye or if not they just grin. Young women, those that are willing to admit they looked at me, either laugh or wink. One day when I was wearing dayglow yellow top and tights, I encountered a pair who were in paroxysms - they couldn't even continue to walk down the road. Older women smile because they think it amusing to see an old fart dressed as lamb.
Now if I had been writing this and aiming it at my friends in the USA, I would have felt it desirable to find a less direct way to say pee and shit. For some reason 'bad language' is a serious crime in the USA and it's almost worse to say 'anal' than to do it.
So I can understand Marc and I hope he can understand why, in spite of that, I'm on Timmy's side about this.
Love
Anthony
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daffey44
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Getting started |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2004
Messages: 23
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"A Place of Safety" = a "Safe Space" See http://www.rossde.com/editorials/safespace.html (made link work - timmy)
As for pornography, some see it in a shadow, a suntan lotion advertisement, or in 2000-year-old mosaics. They have what I call "constipated morality". In any case, I don't own a pornograph on which to play it. (If you are under 45, you might not understand the pun.)
[Updated on: Sun, 23 December 2007 22:42] by Moderator |
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I understand precisely what the point is....
The sad thing is that no one can see my point....
It doesnt matter....
it just doesnt
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Unfortunatly, now I do have to think twice about opening this site.
As sad a testament as that is... it is now true.
I have always felt safe here, comfortable... That seems to be something of the past though... But what does it matter if one person has a problem with something here when so many insist on seeing what they want to see.
That, is sadder yet...
But it doesn't matter... I am well aware of how my feelings, opinions, expectations are viewed...
whatever...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I think I may see your point, Marc.
If one of my male students should have a look at the gif image, I don't think for a second that there will be any damage done to him. But he may be at school and may have opened the post by pure coincidence. His schoolmates will easily discover what he is looking at, and suddenly there will be a big audience, demanding to know if he is gay. Which he may in fact be, and which may also be the reason why he knows the address to this forum.
From that moment on this is not a safe place for him, because it has outed him.
[Updated on: Sun, 23 December 2007 22:08] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You are doing it again. You know very well what the name of this place is about. Please just think longer prior to posting when you know you are reacting badly to something
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Tor wrote:
> From that moment on this is not a safe place for him, because it has outed him.
It never was that safe if he opened it in school. And it has not outed him. He has to take responsibility for the sites he visits. He has, by injudicious surfing in a place that may be dangerous to him, outed himself.
[Updated on: Sun, 23 December 2007 22:39]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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As I said, it doesnt matter....
and it is mattering less and less at the seconds tick past....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc...you know I love you. Do you seriously consider the nude male form to be something to hide? I can understand the part about a child opening up this site and finding a nude picture here, but if the child is gay, why would he be so stupid as to be in this site during school. By the way if the school has any kind of decent Net Nanny they cannnot access this site. I know I tried it one time. The boys who have their own laptops and hubb connections at school can, but then they can be in a position where others cant see. You know when I saw Mark nude or in just briefs I admired his slim beauty, I found nothing discusting or obscene about his body. Leonardo and Michaelangello and all the other great artist painted and carved nudes, not because they wanted to get off but because they were beautiful.
In Europe nudity is commonplace and very little is said about it. Young boys run around at water parks nude and in the ocean and think nothing of it. Only in american do people think the human body is obscene. Like a friend of mine said, "What do you expect from a country founded by Puritains".
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Marc wrote:
> Fine, I relent.... Frontal nuidity is a good thing....
>
> Everyone enjoy....
You can absolutely not read that into what I said. Nether can you read the converse. This thread is not about nudity in any form. It is about precisely why the place is named as it is named.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I do not believe the nude form is anything repulsive......
I did however believe that his place was somewhat above this sort of thing.
Obviously I was wrong.....
I can not understand how any person can compare classical art to frontal nudity on a website.
It doesnt matter....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Of course it is......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Please try to listen. It is not, nor does the number of times you say it change that
This thread is about why I named the place the way I did. And it offends me personally each time you insist that it is unsafe here because of some rationale you have decided upon. You then go and state how unfair it is that it is called by the name I chose because it is not, in your view, safe.
When I say "personally," I mean "personally." Every time you attack this you attack my rationale for creating it. And, because it is my site, you make me feel attacked and not a little let down.
If the board were to guarantee perfect safety in all the places where it might be opened that would be impossible even if we were discussing Disney movies.
Nudity may be discussed in another thread if you want. In fact I thought it had been discussed to death.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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He has, by injudicious surfing in a place that may be dangerous to him, outed himself.
You are absolutely right, and that would have been what I would have told him, too. But many 15-16 year old boys are incredibly careless and act before thinking, and I would probably have felt sorry for the poor lad.
Since Marc hasn't responded to my post, I probably didn't see his point, anyway.
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At the risk of continuing a thread that should be put to rest, I could see in the first few frames where the post was going.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:13]
Cycling is the one sport where a guy can shave his legs, wear spandex and bright colors, and be accepted.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Now, let me see....
I am trying to put this together as best I can....
I am damned when I dont agree with you....
And I am treated as an imbicile when I do...
Now, please try to listen...
Of course it is...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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First, you are absolutely right about the adequacy of the warnings - a point that I had already tried to make in the 'Happy Holidays' thread. It follows that if anyone opens the post and lets the animation run its course, the fault necessarily lies with them and not with this site.
If anyone has any doubts, the animation is still there, in the second post on the same thread.
The second point is more difficult, and I can appreciate that not everyone will agree with me. Yes, these escalations do happen; not too frequently but more often than I would wish - and I usually become involved. Some would certainly prefer to let such threads die. I find that very difficult; problems swept under the carpet inevitably arise again.
For most of my professional life I have been actively involved in confrontation, both in written exchanges and before a variety of tribunals. But disputes need to be resolved, in accordance with the law or, where the law is unclear, in accordance with what is reasonable and practical The mere fact that I am one party in a dispute does not mean that the other party is not entitled to acceptable standards of courtesy; at the end of the day careful argument and logic will always win over ill-considered aggression.
So it is when I come to this site. I enjoy arguing, but only in the 'academic' sense of the word, not in any aggressive way. For example, I've had some very enjoyable arguments with 'NW', though our basic philosophies are so far apart that neither of us is ever able to convince the other. I don't expect others to join in unless they wish to do so, but - if they do - there are some basic rules of argument (or 'debate', if you prefer the term) which ought to be observed. If you put forward a view and someone else contests that view, you must address that contesting view; it isn't acceptable to simply ignore it and say 'I am right and that's the end of it.'
In this case, I felt - and still feel - that the issue of the animation has been blown out of all proportion. I see that as something which, in the interests of fairness and of the reputation of this site, needs to be confronted. Tempo, who made the offending post, has in effect been demonised for something he never did. If he's guilty of anything at all - and I'm not convinced that he is - it was no more than a minor lapse of judgement. As in any situation of this kind, what is needed is a balanced view, and it seems to me that if it's necessary to argue for that result, that is a worthwhile and justifiable reason for taking the matter further.
If you - or anyone else - takes a different view, then I'd be more than happy to discuss it, and this thread seems to be as good a place as any. I promise that I won't take offence; some of the best arguments take pace between best friends!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It really is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. There is nothing to agree about. I named this place for a particular reason. The reason is stated clearly at the head of this thread. It isn't a discussion, this is information that I am giving you.
Since it is information, data, (things which are given), you get to accept it or choose not to accept it. However any non acceptance does not change the data. No amount of arguing nor of discussing changes the data. It is named the way it is because that is how I chose to name it, way back in the mists of time.
It is not a matter of interpretation of the data. We are not considering whether the earth revolves about the sun or the sun about the earth. This is, in the truest sense of the word, data.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I agree with Cossie on all counts - an unusual thing! (though I would prefer to have some of this discussion in a different thread since this one is not about Tempo's post)
Tempo is guilty of nothing save wishing to entertain us. The taste was only questionable, and it was a well meaning lapse of taste. Certainly not a court martial offence.
I hope we never get to name calling. It is reasonable to criticise a behaviour one disagrees with. It is unacceptable to hurl insults. The difference seems subtle at first, but is enormous. "I see your behaviour as stupid" is wholly different from "You are stupid," because one is discusable, and the other is not.
Equally it is valid to state that "The behaviour you exhibit makes me feel (describe feeling)" because this is both polite and reasonable, and there is nothing wrong with a strong exhortation to stop behaving in that manner.
We have arguments because we are people. If everyone here agreed about everything here that would be weird. The head of the board speaks of discussions. The rules are very few, but they do seem to make sense.
[Updated on: Mon, 24 December 2007 09:15]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Thank you for your answer, Cossie.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:14]
Cycling is the one sport where a guy can shave his legs, wear spandex and bright colors, and be accepted.
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