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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It is become clear to me from these two posts, specifically those of Cossie, and Tor.... that I am not welcome here.
Thus being the case. I will no longer come here.
I know when I am not wanted.
fuck it......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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It's not what they were saying. Your behaviour is unwelcome. You are as welcome as you have ever been. I know you are intelligent enough to tell them apart. If you won't -- well, this is precisely why you end up frustrating everyone!
David
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Who in the hell ever said you werent welcome here? SCuse my French. Im the kid here. Im the one who is supposed to throw a tantrum. Your an adult and are supposed to be above such pettyness. You know I think the whole thing boils down to one thing. Instead of saying "This post is inappropriate" you should have said "I think this post is inappropriate". Then it would have just been an opinion. YOur upset cause others diaagree with you? I always thought that that is how we grow, how we learn to consider options. Go if you want, but I think your making a very bad mistake and depriving others of what you have to offer.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Hi
Marc stop throwing your toys out of the pram.
Let it go put in in a box and move onto the next topic
The only people to loose is those that could do with some advise.
perhaps you can help in that field.
Let it go.
life is to enjoy.
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I've never said that you are unwelcome here!
You don't win any laurels by telling lies.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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Take it from someone a bit older than you, Marc; you need to learn to accept criticism better, and to accept it when others don't agree with you. This is a great place to learn both, if you have the will.
JimB
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Dear Marc,
Don't be silly about it. You certainly are welcome here and I for one have winced occasionally when reading what people have said to you.
Although the site is intended to help people with problems, many recent posts have argued about things that aren't problems - at least I think not the sort of problems it was aimed at.
Such as your loneliness for one . . . .
And if there is anything to be done about that, it has to be you asking and listening to what the rest of us say.
Please tell me if this is an acceptable message.
Love
Anthony
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Did you not post????
Thanks, Cossie, although you stole every sentence and argument I was planning to write. And some.
Come to think of it, YES YOU DID!
And it is that comment, that allignment which places you alongside your companion.....
Perhaps you should read what YOU WRITE before you call someone a liar!
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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What I mean is "timmy, why are you allowing this?" This is addressed to all here, rather than whoever it is (I have forgotten) whose post I have answered.
If you are one of those who are wondering, well you need to walk a mile in Marc's moccasins before even thinking about judging him. He would also do well to try yours on before he does the reverse, but this is, in a way, about the purpose of the board, not about Marc.
Everyone who comes here arrives with some sort of pain. Everyone.
For some of us the pain becomes bearable, for others the pain is solved, and for others it continues.
Who are we to judge someone who is exhibiting raw pain?
Our role is to do our best to help. I do not mean "we must ride with blows." I do not mean that rudeness musty go unmentioned. What I mean is that we must be available to listen. We must chide when necessary. We must learn when to hold our tongues and when to speak.
We must look at what seems to be a very simple request: "Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!" Are we doing this? if not, how do we each vary what we are doing in order to do it? It is not simple to see what someone may need before plunging in with advice.
"But this was not a plea for help!"
Wasn't it? How do you know that for sure? It looked to me like a request that got out of hand. Perhaps it was not couched in terms that we all recognised, but it was a request.
Why is it now a battle?
That is a thing I do not understand. Probably it isn't one. Probably it's the last knockings of vented spleens. It should stop of its own accord soon.
Are we any further forward?
Or, put another way, does anyone understand any better Marc's needs and how to help him address them? He and I are old friends, yes. "So why have I let this go on?" It certainly is not because I am cutting him any extra slack. If I had stopped this earlier he would have calmed down earlier. I am not stopping it now. I want us all to see how much the simple things hurt someone else, and to work out how we can help that person through them.
Marc is giving us a great example of assumption. He is not a spiteful, rude, ungenerous, or stupid person. You'll have to trust me on that, unless you also know him. If he were starving he would still help you to find food. He simply gets stuck. Easy to say and he also sees it. So who will help him stop? You don't have to like him to be able to do that. You just have to work out how to help him.
No, his past is no excuse. Equally this is a thing he cannot control easily, this getting stuck. It was caused out of his past. I'm not going to deny any soul in torment the help we can all give. We're good at this. We've just not worked out how to help him.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy wrote:
[[snip]]
> No, his past is no excuse. Equally this is a thing he cannot control easily, this getting stuck. It was caused out of his past. I'm not going to deny any soul in torment the help we can all give. We're good at this. We've just not worked out how to help him.
Squabbles like this do no good to anyone - I may not be the only person who has been put off visiting and posting here because of the need to constantly tread on eggshells!
Yes, we all owe a duty of care to Marc, and to each other. But we also owe a duty of care to those who have not yet made up their minds to take the enormous step of making their first post here. With all respect to both Marc and Timmy, I'm not sure that the balance on this has been at all right.
Now back to semi-lurking mode again: I'm not feeling strong enough to engage in protracted rough-and-tumble here!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The balance will restore itself. I think the way these things go depend upon one's own outlook. Again this is a general post, not directed at you at all.
If one has to make points one persists in feeding the fire. But it is sometimes wrong not to make the point one has to make. A challenge, that.
If one simply ignores the person in pain then the overt symptoms one suffers go away but the pain remains. That can't be right.
If one walks on those eggshells that does deprive the other topics of contributors. Is that right? (this is the only one I could be accused of asking you directly, but it is still general)
So the balance will restore itself. The question is whether the individuals are in any way restored along with the balance.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy,
I apologise both to you and to Marc, for taking part in this unfortunate exchange of words, which I should have jumped off before it got out of hand. I am not a fighter if I can avoid it, so I feel very uncomfortable with the present situation, and of course, I can only blame myself.
I'm not sure I understand fully the implications of what you are saying. I too have a good friend who occasionally gets stuck, caused out of his past. I think I know him well enough to see, most of the time, the pitfalls, and except his own wife and children only very few persons are able to do so. A simple, friendly talk may escalate into an unpredictable fight with words, so I wouldn't recommend for anyone to test my friend's limits, because using words is his profession and he is hell bent on winning those fights.
What I'm asking myself is whether you are expecting the impossible of us. You and Marc are old friends, which means that you and I interpret his words, and especially his lack of words, differently. My years of knowledge and experience with my friend is useful only to a certain extent, because we are all different. But I wish I could see through what appears on the surface, and I agree that my role should be to do my best to help.
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Marc,
I am very sorry for getting into a fight with you.
It was not my intention, and I wish I had stopped before it went this far.
[Updated on: Sat, 29 December 2007 21:25] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I expect a very great deal of all my friends, you included. I am rarely disappointed. What I expect is that they increase the understanding and compassion that they show to others, even those whom they do not like.
Almost always it happens.
I don't expect anyone to interpret others as well as, worse than, or better than I.
The part that rarely disappoints me is that almost everyone tries a little harder, or a little more patiently.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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There is no one here whom I don't like. Not Marc, not anyone else. Instead, I have friends here, some of whom have become very close to me.
The recent battle is only one out of several I have witnessed since I started lurking here three years ago, and what I have seen tells me that my increased understanding, compassion and patience won't do much difference, because that is not where the real challenge is. Except that it may teach me to stay away.
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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I'm afraid to tell you this, but that is exactly what this site has taught me to do! Stay away or stay out of it
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In my younger years I can remember some slam bang arguments in my immediate family. And angry or upset at the time, I have even said I don't want anything to do with you again. Things always went back to normal, however; and today I can't recall what any of those arguments were about. I do recall everyone being nicer than normal for a spell after one of those disagreements. I guess it's because we all felt a bit guilty for the ill feelings we harbored towards the people that meant the most to us, not to mention the words we said in haste.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think you are confusing "Stay out of it" with "Stay away".
It's always puzzled me that many people do that, too. There are plenty of things to contribute to without the awkward posts.
When I was a kid I was given simple advice. "If that boy upsets you, don't play with him." I was never told not to play in that place, just to use judgment about whom I played with.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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