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Hey all,
It has been quite some time now and I see that yuo have all been quite busy typing your fingers to the bone 
Well, like I said I'm not quite sure how this is going to go down, but as yo all know I am always up for a good, CLEAN, discussion. So here goes...
One of my friend is dating a young guy, less than half her age ( YES he is over the permitted age ) and he told her the other night that he loves her. When she told me this I was quite shocked because he really did not strike me as the type of guy to say something like that.
Now to really mix things up he is "Bi" and has been hurt by another guy once before, so instantly this worried me.
My friend asked what she should do, and for the first time in a long time I was left speachless  ??
I pondered the though for about two days and eventualy wrote the following reply to her...
_____________________________________________________
The love of another will never be equal to the love of any other. Just as love given is never, and will never, be equal to the love received. Love is individual.
Love is only comparative to its own. Only once one has found the origin of love, can one find its reason. Reasoning with love can be complicated. One needs to conceptualise the view of the other, long before one can fathom any kind of opposition.
Hiding behind love is not an excuse nor is it excusable. It can never be taken at face value, and given too much time to contemplate its way, it can become a warped facet of twisted lies and broken hearts.
The only reason why revenge is cold, is because love extinguished the flame.
A lovers squabble is left destitute on the baron wastelands of continued conflict of Love and War.
Surrounded by the fear of isolation and loneliness. Betrayed by the winds of change and forgotten by the gods of control.
Reserved by the keepers of time, to taunt and agonise the forlorn should of the enraged forgiver.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Action vs. Reaction, is only a matter of Strength vs. Knowledge. An action can never loose, it can only evolve.
An action is dependant on a situation as well as an emotion. However, it is independent of any thought.
A broken heart seeks an opposite reaction, greater than the original action. Until such a time as this opposing reaction is found, the broken hearts action will continue to gather strength and loose logic.
One needs to now know what the opposing action is, before one can find it. Opposition is the greatest weapon of mass destruction on a universal scale.
Thus, and opposite reaction, can also be classed as an action unto its own. Catch 22... It's the eternal circle of life in action.
Knowledge is power.
_____________________________________________________
Firstly, does this make any kind of sense to anyone?
Secondly, was I right in saying what I did to her?
We have that kind of friendship where no topic is taboo, and if one of us has something to say than we say it ( better to tell than to hurt keeping secrets, is how we look at it )
But now I think what I said to her may have been tainted by the fact that I also quite like this younger guy. More as a friend at the moment, but the more time that I spend with him, the more I seem to be attracted to me. And I only though about this after I sent her the email.
I would like some in-put on this one from all of you.
Thanks guys.
Luvies
MIKE;-D
"And so the lion fell in love with the Lamb"
"What a stupid Lamb"
"What a sick, masochistic lion"
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Dear Mike,
What you have sent her is mostly hinting and (unless I have missed it) didn't carry any suggestions how she should act. Am I right about this?
You didn't actually *say* that she knew about him being hurt by another guy, but maybe you intended to hint that she did. Does she know?
Some people (I am one) find it very hard to say "I love you". If your friend is like that then what he said has much more force than if he's willing to use those words at the drop of a hat. Where does your friend fit on this scale?
What about your female friend? What did she say to him? And where is she on the "I love you" scale? Are her intentions honourable? []
I mean - could this be a budding lifetime romance or is it probably a brief affair?
I feel that you may be being asked how to escape, how to make a lover of him or how to test the situation so she can decide about the possibilities. Which?
From here I can't tell.
Does your male friend know you are talking to the female? Does he know you like him? Maybe if your advice is selfless he may consider you favourably if it is an affair with the female and it doesn't work out.
Maybe you three should talk together about what each of you feels. Of course if you do that you risk what happens being decided by the others without considering you and any of the three may get hurt.
Do you see why I haven't given you any advice and only asked questions?
Love,
Anthony
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Im not sure about your answer as it seemed very confusing. I have a question tho. You said the guy was Bi and had been hurt by another guy. Is he latching onto her as a rebound? Because she is so much older does he see her as being safe? I know Im not very old and have no experience in all this but I have heard the saying "BI now gay later". If I was her I would run as far from him as possible. The municipal park here is raided all the time and they arrest all these married men for soliciting gay sex in the park.
I love Jeff wiith all my heart. WE have been best friends since first grade and now he is my best friend and lover. I dont question the origin of our love for each other, because then that makes it mechanical and dry and takes away its meaning. I think what you look for is if the love is real. Another question. Does she love him in return? Since she is questioning his love, I think maybe she doesnt feel the same way and is just flattered by his feelings for her.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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Substitute teacher in Economics today. Absolutely no clue what to do with a class of AP kids who would study and work if given any direction at all, but her idea of Economics seems to be limited to cutting supermarket coupons out of newspapers. So again we're left to our own devices. So we're all engaging in de vices.
First, this is the opinion of a bi-leaning-gay guy still in high school. So I have a feeling my opinion isn't going to be what you want to hear, but you asked direct questions, and I'll give you direct answers. Again, these are from the perspective of the advanced age of seventeen, with all the worldly wisdom and knowledge that comes with it.
Question one, did your email to her make any sense? Not to me. She wanted to know what to do and you danced all around the issue and gave her a bunch of guru-speak that means nothing. Khalil Gibran said it all before in "The Prophet."
Question two, you have the right to say whatever you want to her or to any other friend, but I personally don't think this was what she was looking for.
Then the question of ages. If he's over the legal age, in this country that means he's at least eighteen, and if he's less than half her age that would mean she's at least thirty-six. Does the term "old enough to be your mother" ring a bell here?
He's admittedly bi, and he's on the rebound out of a gay relationship, and you're admittedly interested in him, and he might be interested in you, and he tells her he loves her... Can you see a situation developing where everyone involved is going to be hurt? I mean this is not rocket science!
This reply will no doubt spark yet another of those nasty debates about "are younger people attracted to older people." I will say yes, some younger people might be attracted to older people, but not for the reason the older person might want to believe. When a young person chases an older person there are other motives and drivers involved besides sexual attraction. Like money.
The best advice you can give your lady friend is to pat the boy on the head, give him a bus ticket back to wherever he lives, tell him to find some nice boy his own age (because eventually that's how all this is going to end up and you know it) and forget him and find a man her own age who can relate to her as an adult and not a mommy-substitute.
Hugs
Donny
[Updated on: Mon, 28 January 2008 13:46] |
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Jeeze! We think SO alike!
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And all that time I spent last night on the Economics homework and project, instead of spending the time with you on the IM and now we got a sub today. There is just no justice in the world. None.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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A bit black and white, but you're making a good deal of sense.
And yes, a few younger people are sexually interested in older people. If I ever meet one I'll let you know.
He's prolly "over 16" rather than "over 18" but those two years don;t make that much difference.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Mike,
You asked for input from everyone, but after reading both Anthony and Donny's appraisals of your letter, I can't think of much to add. I guess I could only advise you to question everyone's motives here... including your own. Supply answers to the questions Anthony and Donny raised - the answers you give yourself should be eye opening.
PS Donny you can't fool me. You're really a 50 year old man with multiple PhD's. And Curtis... stay out of the park ::-)
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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This substitute teacher thing can really get to be a pain in the tush. Trust me I dont go to that park alone, ewwwwwwwwwww
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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Eldon wrote:
(snip)
> The best advice you can give your lady friend is to pat the boy on the head, give him a bus ticket back to wherever he lives, tell him to find some nice boy his own age (because eventually that's how all this is going to end up and you know it) and forget him and find a man her own age who can relate to her as an adult and not a mommy-substitute.
100% right, Eldon. I know - I've been there. My last partner was 18, I was 34 when we got together - though we never had sex because he said it would be like "screwing his dad". He was bi, and we had a wonderful dozen-plus years together before he emigrated to the States. Some part of me always knew it was time-limited. He's now married, and very happy about it (so he said when he stayed with me last year).
In any age-disparate relationship, the older partner must be prepared to be outgrown ... and it can be very tough changing from "love" to "mentor / older friend". But it isn't impossible - though it can hurt a fair bit.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Dat ain't be what Mammy be tellin' me bo! She say yo be up in dat park all by yo'self near ever' night! Yo up in dere, sittin' dere like some ol' spidah, jes waitin' fo dem mens t'give yo dem free blow jobs an' all. Jes like an ol' spidah, yassah. Yassah. It ain't fittin', it jes ain't fittin, nosuh!
An' yo gets back in heah Massah Curtis, yo ain't gots no bizness runnin' dem streets like dat in dat Speedo likes dat! Wi' yo package all bouncin' 'round likes dat! Whats yo be thinkin'! It ain't fittin'! Ain't yo gots no shame a'tall?
An' whats you be a'doin' wi'dem portieres!? You leave off dem portieres Massah Curtis, you leave off dem right now! Yo know dems Miz Ellen's portieres! Don' yo go an' run yoself up some drag queen dress outta Miz Ellen's portieres!
It ain't fittin', it jes ain't fittin'!
Jes yo waits till Massah Rhett gits back heah, he be tannin' yo lil' sweet butt sumthin' fierce! Yassah!
An GIT YO HANDS OFF MIZ. ELLEN'S PORTIERES!!!!!
With apologies to Hattie McDaniel, a great actress, and a great lady. She brought dignity and professionalism to even the most stereotyped roles, and in another time would have been recognized as the amazing person she was.
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... fifty with a PhD, I'd me teaching Animal Husbandry instead of practicing it.
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Hey! We got portieres! Don't go making fun of folk's portieres.
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Have you no shame at all?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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now what kind of name is Norvil?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Even as a joke, and with the meager deisclaimer, attaching the picture of that innocent person to a stereotypically prejudicial manner of speech is just plain wrong.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I'd like to suggest this discussion is continued in the separate thread I started about it. The topic is well worth a calm and good discussion
[Updated on: Tue, 29 January 2008 16:56]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Donny,
If I were you I say GIVE ME BACK MY 33 YEARS. They may well be the best 33 too. There were riots in England when the change from Julian to Gregorian seemed to drop eleven days.
The rioters cry was "Give us back our eleven days"!
Love,
Anthony
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Nope! Well known fact, I have no shame at all. The things we've done together, and you ask a question like that!
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Hell boy, anybody can have portieres! WE got pocket doors! Curtis has pocket doors too. So don't think you're something special just because you got portieres.
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It's the real name of the popcorn magnate.
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Thanks guys, I lost the plot a bit after all the pics ( But they are good ) but I think that I am back on track...
Lets strat with my motives : DESPERATION is my only motive! Sad but true. I really am not sure how much longer I can be alone for. I know that it is no big deal to be without, hell sometimes it is even better than been with, but I just can not seem to shake the feeling of Desperatly longing for a lover.
As for his motives, I really do not think that he is in it for the money, as he has a job ( well paid ) a car and his own place. But one never can tell. I think that he may truely love her, but in saying so he does not have a great home life so he may just be looking for a new mommy. Again one never can tell.
As for her I think that she is a lot like me in just wanting someone there to hold and to love and to be loved by...
OH GOD My head feels like it is going to explode... ?? I just want to close my eyes and wake up 15 years ago, it all just seemed to be so much more logical back then...
I want it so bad that I will do anything to get it, but as soon as someone is willing to give it I chase them away, and I do so by choice.
WHAT THE F**K IS WRONG WITH ME... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
"And so the lion fell in love with the Lamb"
"What a stupid Lamb"
"What a sick, masochistic lion"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Ok, what's a portiere?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Sorry guys, just been a bit of a hectic day at work. Just needed to talk to someone, but I think that I am feeling better now.
So like I was saying:
The "she" is 44 years old and the "he" is 21. I am not quite sure what to say...
I now that she will not do it on purpose but I think that she will end up hurting him no matter which way it goes. I have invited him out for coffee this weekend just so that we can talk. I am going to go in as just another friend. I will hold no past, I will hold no want or need, I just want to talk. Just start it out as a normal talk and if the conversation moves in that direction then so be it, but I am going to leave it up to him. He can choose the topics that he like.
OMG... I forgot that he had asked me before to go for coffee but I had said that I was busy. Maybe he is the one that wants to talk to me and not the other way round... now Im confused again... Oh well I am going to try and not let it bug me. But I will keep you all posted on what goes down.
Luvies Madly, Thanks again guys.
ME
"And so the lion fell in love with the Lamb"
"What a stupid Lamb"
"What a sick, masochistic lion"
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Maybe my overactive and romantic nature is protruding here. I wonder if it's possible that he might have the same feelings for you that you have for him? Could his feelings towards this older woman be feigned in order to get some sort of reaction out of you?
Damn... and you won't get to talk with him until this weekend. Well, don't waste any time sending the results to us. ;-D
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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I believe you chase people away because you're afraid of being hurt. My guess is that you're looking for the perfect lover. There's no such animal. The closest you'll come is "almost perfect". Do you ever hang in there long enought to get past their looks and try looking at their heart and soul? To really find a lasting loving mate you have to invite them into your life for a while to discover the good parts and ponder how you can live with their faults. They will be doing the same, so don't hide anything. I read your message to your friend and now I would like to know what hard advice you would offer her if you were not afraid of hurting her feelings?
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timmy wrote:
> Ok, what's a portiere?
That would be a doorway curtain. Used by Scarlet to make a dress at the end of Gone With the Wind.
The dress looked someting like this:
-
Attachment: burnett.jpg
(Size: 40.26KB, Downloaded 354 times)
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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Oh Uncle Jim You always seem to make so much sense. You are right, I have been hurt and a fear of it happening again scares me dizzy... And so are the days of our lives > ;-D
If I had to tell her how I feel with no fear of hurting her I would say :
" Let him go, he is cute and full of life but he is not for you. You are old enough to be his mother, in fact you are two years older than his mother. It might be great for you know, but things are going to go the same way they did with Cal. He is going to shatter your heart sooner or later and I am not sure that you will be able to recover this time. You know that I will always be there to help you pick up the pieces, like I always have been, but I'm running out of glue. "
I know that she will fight it, and will carry on with things the way they are. And I will respect the choice that she has made because she is my friend.
The funniest thing is that she knows how I feel and she keeps saying to me that she will share him with me...  )
RIGHT... I have a very strong feeling that she is just in it for the sex, and in truth I think that I am more scared of her hurting him than I am of him hurting her.
This all makes very little sense in my head so I have no idea how it all looks on paper.
"And so the lion fell in love with the Lamb"
"What a stupid Lamb"
"What a sick, masochistic lion"
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From the Wikopedia...
In Margaret Mitchell's novel, Gone with the Wind, the protagonist Scarlett O'Hara makes a new dress from her mother's green velvet portieres (the scene was famously parodied on The Carol Burnett Show when Carol Burnett, playing the role of Scarlett, wore not only the fabric but the curtain rod as well).
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Not sure how this will go down... 
Oh yea? 
