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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I have a friend who is set on converting from some sort of Christianity to Judaism. This confuses me. I am asking this from a position of ignorance in the hope of enlightenment.
Christianity appears to have a benign deity, and you get three in the package for one set of praying. There are very few restrictions, if any.
Judaism appears to have a terrifying deity, with mood swings, and you only get one, with the promise of a messiah to come I think! Plus you get loads of restrictions.
So why would one convert?
I could ask him, but I wont be. Not for a while at least
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Timmy,
It's hard to tell which is frying pan and which is fire.
I think that if you HAVE to have a religion and can choose, it ought to be decided on which will have better effects on your life.
Apologists for religion say that religion is the source of morality. This is false because if a religion tells you to do something right, you can always choose not to do it and if a religion prohibits an action you can choose to do it.
So the choice between moral actions and immoral ones is always yours and you cannot pass on the praise or blame to the religion. And every religion I know requires you to refrain from some moral actions and to do some immoral ones.
And since the choice is yours, instead of trying to divine what it is that god wants you to do, you will get further with less effort making up your own mind about what makes an action good or bad so that when you are faced with a moral choice you can make it responsibly.
So I would urge anyone thinking of taking up or changing religion to think again and to accept that if they can just change their mind about what is true about god than maybe there are no good reasons for bothering with one at all.
Love from a devout atheist,
Anthony
[Updated on: Fri, 28 March 2008 11:13] |
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Dear Timmy,
If you become a jew don't you have to get circumcised?
OUCH!
Love,
Anthony
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unsui
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Likes it here |
Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 19:32] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I am not entirely sure.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Oh he is pursuing it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Surely its a matter of belief? Maybe I'm biased because of my background in Mormonism where "knowledge" of "truth" is valued so highly, but isn't truth the primary motivation for being a part of any religion?
Why would someone convert from Christianity to Judaism?
The simplest explanation is that they believe the Bible to be true up to the Old Testament but don't believe that Jesus was the prophesied messiah.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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John..
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: March 2008
Messages: 56
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I find the whole topic of religion an interesting one indeed.
My parents chose my faith, like I think they all do, I do think it is wrong to force your beliefs on to your off spring.
I was introduced to the church of England by my parents, so when I married I made sure my children were not baptised, so they could if they wanted make there own choice.
I feel is a person wants to transfer from one faith to another then so what.
I find the whole idea of a god and his son, and the heaven thing, a difficult pill to swallow.
There are so many different religions I can start to count them, and they all think that they have it right.
So people can believe what they like it makes no difference at all in the end.
Most wars are about religion, I wonder why that is.
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timmy wrote:
Christianity appears to have a benign deity ...Judaism appears to have a terrifying deity
A couple of comments:
1. It would be a great mistake to confuse the God of the Old Testament (as seen by Christians) with the God of the Jews (as seen by Jews).
2. Judaism is not a missionary religion so your friend will not find conversion easy at all. He or she will have to be very sure of themselves.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Dear John,
How I agree with you that children should not be indoctrinated by religion. But I do think they ought to be taught to be kind (by example, ideally).
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Looking at the old testament, and assuming we share the same books, I am struggling to see the differences between the jewish and christian deity portrayed there.
I have qualified this with my position of total ignorance, though.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Ok, for fun I am going to throw some oil in the ointment. Did it ever occure to anyone that the god of the old testiment and the god of the new testiment are different beings? What if the god everyone walked and talked with and the god of creation were two different beings. There actually is a theological argument for this.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Even so, we speak only of the deity in the OT. I see one could look at this as peering back over a pair of parallel worlds that converged at around 4BC, but I think unlikely.
Christians and Jews seem to share a common set of tales prior to 4BC and we shared a common present after it, but with an extra personification of the deity (or two!) for christians.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I cannot join in this part of the discussion. The God of the Christians is, to put it bluntly, not the God of the Jews. A believing Jew just cannot even begin to comprehend a triune deity, part of which somehow became human and then became God again. It is so foreign to Jewish thinking that there is no way of reconciling the Christian God with the Jewish God.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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We need to stick to the deity of the OT. Adding the one with his son and ghost into the equation overcomplicates it
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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