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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I'm having email correspondence with a young man (under 16) in California who loves an slightly older young man (about 16) in his school. My young friend is unsure that he is, himself, gay, but he loves his beloved with all his heart. From his description I am not at all sure that this is a sexual love, though I may be wrong
He wishes to tell him that he is beloved. He was going to do so on Friday, and has been emailing me for advice. He, not unreasonably, became nervous and wrote an (unsent) letter which he showed me. The letter was to be the mechanism, he decided.
I would like, please, your advice for him. My own advice made him think I was upset at him in some manner, and I think he will also value whatever you have to say.
When you advise, please know that he has a very strict home life, and seems afraid of his parents.
[Updated on: Sun, 13 April 2008 08:16]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Somehow, I can feel some similarities between us, not just ages but I always fund myself in the similar situation, I hoped, I tried until I nearly crumpled. I often thought time will fix anything, heal any hurts, but really? It's impossible! After I read your site, I just realize "he" still lies there, deepest part of my heart.
Please give him more hope- but let him understand do not depend on his beloved one too much, otherwise he will end up like me, and I hope he will be more mature than before.
(sorry about the use of English, It's not my 1st language)
Errol
I've got sins...or not?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The challenge we all face includes:- Will he reject me
- Will he tease me
- Will he tell the whole school
- What happens when my parents hear
- What if he loves me back, that's scary too
- If I never tell him I will never get closure
And there are so many more outcomes. I hope I've given him an idea of the things that may happen, and I hope for the best outcome.
He was going to tell his friend on Friday, but i think it came and went unsaid.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ultimatly it is his foot that pokes into the fire...
therefore... it is his choice, his decision... we can sit here and tell him to do this or that but we are not the ones to live through the flack if it all goes wrong...
The only sensible advice would be to wait until he.....HE... not WE are sure he is old enough to handle the collateral damage.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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He says he is old enough to handle any fallout. And this is a secret burning its way out into the open. What does he need to understand about the outcomes of telling the other lad he adores him? I need help in painting him a fair picture of the potential pitfalls.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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unsui
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Likes it here |
Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 18:28] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Michael Sargeant (vintage '41) wrote:
> An older boy can be attractive and influential for reasons other than sexual desire. We used to call it 'hero worship'. It's entirely possible to be infatuated and even to love without the need to act upon it. It can be difficult, depending upon your sexual development, urges and experience, to determine how long infatuation may last and if it might turn into love and therefore be more able to carry you through the difficulties that infatation cannot.
That is important. Thank you for putting it so clearly. I've never fallen for an older boy, so i was unable to advise my friend with that clarity. My adorations have been same age or younger.
I did try to make sure he understands that he may be looking for a parental replacement. He has said he is clear that he is not, but I think your reminder is highly appropriate.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If he is old enough to handle the flack then he is old enough and capable to make the decision to talk to the object of his affection....
But... When young it is easy to believe in ones own immortality...
However, reality usually is somewhat different from the flowers and hearts aspirations of young love...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Im not old enough to know about all the complications involved. What it boils down to is he is in love with another boy and is afraid of the consequences of telling him. I know about that and the fear is very real. Mostly losing my best friend. Jon helped with that problem and broke the ice between me and Jeff. He wrote Jeff a letter as a mutual friend and told him someone he knew was in love with him. My name was never mentioned, but it didnt take much for Jeff to figure it out. Sometimes you just have to take a chance, but you can do that descreately.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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Oh dear, Michael,
I do hate the idea of a 'physiological purpose'. It's a big mistake to think that. There is no purpose because a purpose implies something has a will and some power to pursue it - and the idea is ludicrous.
I agree that a letter is a dangerous hostage to fortune. For what it's worth I'd suggest that whatever revelations are made should be made face to face and only after checking to be as sure as possible that the hearer will not misuse the knowledge. ["If I tell you a secret do you promise not to tell a soul?"] If Timmy's friend arranges meeting after meeting and can't bring himself to say what he feels then he should accept that it isn't yet time.
When I fell in love I told him and he told me not to be silly. It was my first time and I was within a month of my 21st birthday and he was so nice to me about it that I am still amazed and we are still friends fifty-two years later. But at sixteen it would be much harder to say and, if it was a surprise to the other party, would be much harder for him to deal with.
If Timmy's sixteen-year-old can avoid burdening his friend with such a difficult problem until he is sure that it wouldn't *be* a problem (ie until he is sure it will be well received) then I would suggest he should.
Although in many ways society in some parts of the world is much more tolerant than it was when I was under thirty (when all homosexual acts were against the law and people were put in prison for it) in many ways society was very tolerant then. I think lots of people knew I was homosexual and nobody seemed to care then.
But schools are something of a hothouse and unkind rumours spread easily and unless there is a good GSA it would be easy to get overwhelmed by a negative reaction (maybe even then).
I've just been reading The Scholar's Tale by Mihangel and the restraint Leon shows by not declaring his love until he is sure it is reciprocated earns him great happiness in the end.
Love,
Anthony
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Well, Curtis,
I wish I had had such a good friend. I always had to do my own matchmaking!
Years later I was told that (a) was in love with me and that (b) lusted after me and at the time nobody told me and I missed out on some relationships that I would have been delighted with.
Anyway you have raised Jon even higher in my estimation. Good on you!
Love,
Anthony
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Get Jon to send him a copy of the letter he wrote for Curtis, changing the details to fit the situation. That way a third party is the go between, and Timmy's friend can back off and his feeling remain hidden if the other guy rejects the overture. I read Jon's letter when he sent if to Jeff, and the guy would have to be the most insensative person alive not to respond to it. Positive or negative response, either way it should draw a reply which Jon could then forward along.
I do think this is a situation where there needs to be a middleman.
That was an old pic of me, that's gone now. Pre-orthodontia.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I mean to come as a participant, or to choose one or more of you to ask for advice. I know he has come here and read.
He says he will try. He is concerned that none of you know him well enough to advise. I have said to him: The folk on the board? No, they don't know you yet. They will when you talk to them. Each of them has different hopes and fears. None of them is perfect nor whole. They would not be there if their lives were perfect. What they are capable of is understanding you as far as you let them, and becoming friends if you allow it. They will have ideas and advice which you need not take, or may want to. Some will be patient, others gruff. And that is ok too.
I hope he comes here and gets more opinions than just mine. He has that intense and exquisite loneliness that only unrequited love can bring, and feels hopeless and afraid.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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What gay boy hasnt stood in a room full of friends and classmates and not felt totaly alone. There is that need that every gay boy has that seeks that special someone, not just as a lover, but as a friend and best bud, the one that knows all your secreats and plans and loves, and is always there for you. Jeff knows everything and shares all of my life and shares all of his life with me. He is not just my lover, he is also my other half. He is the one who will tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear.
Friends are two hearts singing the same song. So if one forgets the words, the other can remind him.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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How did a shrimpy kid from Tennessee get so wise? That last paragraph of your posting was perfect. I totally agree with everything you wrote, and Eldon and Dan and I have that kind of friendship. In fact, we have a code for telling each other when things are off-kilter in one of the friendships. One of us will say something like, "Hey, truth, even if it hurts?" Meaning "I need to tell you something that you're not going to want to hear, but you have to listen."
That time Eldon and I were mad, and hurt, and nearly ripped each other's arms off at wrestling practice, and you helped to get us to talk things over again? That was a bad time that sharing everything helped get through.
Hey Lil' Bro, all Love to you and Jeff.
Halit... Dude, if you read this, you KNOW you're NOT alone feeling like you do. Still waiting for you to join up here and start talking through what's in your heart. Donny and I can only do so much and there are older and totally wiser heads here who give great, although sometimes painful, advice.
Jordie? Do you have designs on my boyfriend? ROFLMAO. He told me about you being on the Banks this summer and he's already looking at maps! Dude, no way can I get away this summer. Mark and I are running the marina because the owner in going on a vacation trip. :-/ 
[Updated on: Thu, 17 April 2008 12:42] |
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Yes, Jon & Curtis & Timmy,
Several of us, too, have experience of unrequited love, sometimes because they are committed to someone else, sometimes because they are straight or otherwise incompatible.
It's very hard to bear and even looking back on it I wonder how I lasted.
Love,
Anthony
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curtis i take my hat off to you
you have become so wise and understanding
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Hey Jon
I know now that i have you and donny to talk to and help me through stuff
i forgot that
on to your second point
I am afraid I most certainly cannot comment at this moment *blushes with desire and hidden ideas*
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Yea, verily, there was in those days a sage dwelling in the land of the Tennessians, who was known as Curtis The Wise. And not only did the Tennesseeites go unto him for advice, but all manner of young men did flock to his abode through the wonderous Internet. And he did give advice, and was praised among boys. And yea, even adults did consult Curtis The Wise for advice, and went out from him saying, "Man, that's one wise dude and cute to boot."
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"Man, that's one wise dude and cute, to boot."
Spot the difference?
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Yea varily I learned all my wisdom from the wise sages in NC named Jon and Eldon
[Updated on: Fri, 18 April 2008 23:35]
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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Yes, agreed. It reads better this way with the added comma. But in the pattern of speech I was trying for, and as we speak in coastal North Carolina, there is not a "verbal comma." In fact it would be spoken more like "Yep 'at Curtis feller's wise awe'right an' cute t'boot!"
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Boy, y'all mus' be a'fixin' t'go outcher dang mind! Iffin' y'll lernt y'stuff offin' us then y'all ain't lernt much, tha's fer dang sher!
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Im just a Connecticut boy lost here in a woods
no true accent
save for my use of y'all and the word Wuter[water]
[Updated on: Fri, 18 April 2008 21:09] |
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So? What happened? Did this dude tell the other one how he feels? Did anything happen? What? Are they going to live happily ever after or did the dude get his face pulped?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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So far he has chosen discretion. While he wishes he were ready he obviously is not, because he was unable to either have the conversation or to send the letter. That's ok. After all, a few weeks more will make little difference. It's when those weeks turn into years as mine did that it all goes very wrong.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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So this dude puts everybody through all this advising and thinking and hoping it all works out for him... and pfffittt!?!? Nothing? He wusses out? Shit damn, He didn't have to send the letter to the other guy, one of us high school guys would have done it for him and taken any heat, if there was any heat. It's a win-win situation for him!! He gets to sound out this other dude at no peril to himself. Tell him to write Jon or me. God, this boy needs to shit or get off the pot.
Has he read all the "shoulda-coulda-woulda" postings you older guys do, and all the lamenting you do over the "great lost opportunities" of your longed-for youth?? He needs to see what's in store for him if he just sits around worrying and gnawing his fingernails.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I agree. This is what he needs to hear, and from you who are nearest to his age. He has certainly read this thread. Ball is firmly in his court. He does have a right to discard advice, of course 
[Updated on: Wed, 23 April 2008 18:44]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Donny,
I think you're a bit hard on the guy. He doesn't know it's going to work out all right. He doesn't have your experience and he may even not realise that if someone from this board writes to his 'hoped for' he is in no danger of finding himself out of his depth.
Your time is valuable? So is mine: as a computer consultant in the 1990s I was getting $900 a day. And I *still* think you should give him a bit more leeway.
Love,
Anthony
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Donny, Donny, Donny... nicely brought-up and polite boys never say "shit or get off the pot!" We say something like "either defecate or else kindly remove your precious posterior from the porcelain waste receiver." Where were you raised? A barn?  )
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Who ever said I was nicely brought up and polite? And your precious posterior is welcome in the barn where you think I was raised anytime. You never complained about anything that ever went on in that barn before!
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Yes Anthony, I'm busy. I live on a farm and my day starts at 4:30am every day. I work before school and after school, and then if I'm lucky I get some time for myself at maybe ten at night.
So dude, whoever you are and thinking about if you should or if you shouldn't talk to this dude you have this crush on. Here's the straight shit. You got friends here willing to send this guy a letter, without mentioning you at all. The letter Jon sent to Jeff that time is an example, and we can rewrite it for you and your situation. Like Timmy says, the ball is in your court for the next play.
The way we see it, you got nothing to lose. If he goes off and goes ape-shit mad because some other dude thinks he might like boys, tough shit for him, he'll never know about you, and Jon and I can deal with whatever gets slung. So you got an even chance with him the way it looks to us. Jon and I have our email addresses posted on our profiles. You are welcome to write.
Most importantly, read the thread here. You really want to be middle aged and be looking back on a lot of missed chances and lost opportunities???
I know it's a scary step. But shit damn dude, the rewards for taking that chance are unbelievable. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING beats making love to another boy.
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I prefer a nice Lutheran church for nefarious deed doing
its quiet
gays are allowed
and the grass is soft
[Updated on: Wed, 23 April 2008 22:34] |
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Curtis! Awesome! 
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