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So dude, whoever you are and thinking about if you should or if you shouldn't talk to this dude you have this crush on. Here's the straight shit. You got friends here willing to send this guy a letter, without mentioning you at all. The letter Jon sent to Jeff that time is an example, and we can rewrite it for you and your situation. Like Timmy says, the ball is in your court for the next play.
The way we see it, you got nothing to lose. If he goes off and goes ape-shit mad because some other dude thinks he might like boys, tough shit for him, he'll never know about you, and Jon and I can deal with whatever gets slung. So you got an even chance with him the way it looks to us. Jon and I have our email addresses posted on our profiles. You are welcome to write.
Most importantly, read the thread those older guys posted. You really want to be middle aged and be looking back on a lot of missed chances and lost opportunities???
I know it's a scary step. But shit damn dude, the rewards for taking that chance are unbelievable. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING beats making love to another boy.
[Updated on: Wed, 23 April 2008 20:27] |
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To put it bluntly
my man donny has it right
put up or go home
your choice kiddo
I was in your shoes with my boyfriend tony
and we're going on 11 months next month
so try it out yah got nothing to lose
and trust me i'll protect you like a bro if stuff hits the fan
[Updated on: Wed, 23 April 2008 21:28] |
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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considered the notion that the person you would so willingly send this letter to would go along with it just to find out who this secret admirer is?
Did it not occur to you that he could do this with the intention to harm this person?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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donny has a point there about the love making ;-D
just gotta take a chance dude
and if you fail pull yourself up by the bootstraps and try again...
[Updated on: Wed, 23 April 2008 22:20] |
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Jordan.... you seriously need to look at all aspects of a situation before you go running off half cocked.....
It is a definate possibility.....
If you don't think so then you are sadly mistaken.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I never denied that it could happen
It may it mayn't
but i do believe you are overreacting just a tad
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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And i believe you are treating this a little to casually.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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He has a lot to lose. Home, friends, school, life. And you can;t protect him. You are several miles from where he lives
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Just to be clear, this is advice. And he has the right not to take that advice if he chooses. What he needs to see and weigh are the possible courses of action. And he needs to make his own decision based on what he knows and what he thinks.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Yea, jeeze, y'all are right! Jeeze maybe he'll get up this morning and slip in the shower and wind up a paraplegic, or maybe his school bus will get hit broadside by a train, or maybe he'll pop a boner in algebra and be the laughing stock of the school for like ten minutes until somebody else does something distracting, or maybe his parents will get divorced, or maybe... or maybe...
May I speak frankly here? Sometimes I get the impression that you older dudes really don't want us younger guys to be happy, and find lovers, and make love. Sometimes I think you want us to grow up as emotionally stunted as y'all are. You want us to be as conflicted, as confused about our sexuality and as self-pitying as some of you have become.
This younger dude is at a threashold, a crossroads. He can take a chance, or not, that's his decision. Personally, I'd rather face the consequences of making that decision, whatever those consequences might be, than grow into adulthood and wind up sitting in this morass of self-pity you've created for yourselves here chanting the endless mantra "O, if only."
And let's be even more honest. If he faces the loss of his family if it becomes known he's gay, or bi, then that is going to happen sooner or later anyway, right? So better sooner than later in my opinion so he has more time to build his own life. If there was love in his family to begin with, that love should be strong enough to carry them through their son coming out.
I've been up all night with another little calf coming into the world, so maybe I'm not at my most tactful.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It's really hard. I want him to be happy, loved and safe.
At present he is safe.
If he comes out to his family it is unlikely that he will be safe, and he is only 14. That age diff between you and him is enormous and only 3 years or so.
He has a set of risks and a set of rewards. Some of those rewards are highly negative, others could be positive in ways beyond his dreams.
He needs, currently, the security of a home he perceives is unfriendly in order to have food and shelter. That family will pay for or towards his college education. If he wants that to happen he must use caution, or so he feels.
He desires a slightly older boy in complex ways. It is not necessarily physical, it may be as a role model replacement. And that older lad may or may not be able or willing to be what my friend needs. If the adoration is returned even as good friendship, that is a win. If not it is a huge loss.
Do I want young folk to be happy? Damn right I do. I want you all, without exception to be loved by your families by your friends and by your chosen partners. I want you to have the total freedom to love whom you like and to be open about it.
That world is not yet here. YOUR generation will likely be the one that causes it to happen for the teenagers when you are in your fifties. I hope it comes earlier than that, but I suspect it will not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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timmy wrote:
> It's really hard. I want him to be happy, loved and safe.
>
> At present he is safe.
>
> If he comes out to his family it is unlikely that he will be safe, and he is only 14. That age diff between you and him is enormous and only 3 years or so.
>
> He has a set of risks and a set of rewards. Some of those rewards are highly negative, others could be positive in ways beyond his dreams.
>
> He needs, currently, the security of a home he perceives is unfriendly in order to have food and shelter. That family will pay for or towards his college education. If he wants that to happen he must use caution, or so he feels.
>
> He desires a slightly older boy in complex ways. It is not necessarily physical, it may be as a role model replacement. And that older lad may or may not be able or willing to be what my friend needs. If the adoration is returned even as good friendship, that is a win. If not it is a huge loss.
>
> Do I want young folk to be happy? Damn right I do. I want you all, without exception to be loved by your families by your friends and by your chosen partners. I want you to have the total freedom to love whom you like and to be open about it.
>
> That world is not yet here. YOUR generation will likely be the one that causes it to happen for the teenagers when you are in your fifties. I hope it comes earlier than that, but I suspect it will not.
As do I..... and I have been around here a long time...... in a few cases, long enough to see what happens when moving too quickly goes wrong....
When a kid is thrown out of his house it is hard as hell to be of much support..... when it comes with a threat of violence from peers it becomes impossible....
The hard truth of it is that it is better to be safe than sorry.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Without taking any personal credit, because I was a coward and did nothing, OUR generation, Eldon, started to make it safer for YOUR generation to be as free as you are today.
You are quasi free, in a lucky enclave in an awkward nation and state. You are able to express your love and to make love fairly freely. But are you "out and proud" in school? What does/would that involve for you?
Do you have any idea how much I want homosexuality to be irrelevant to everyone except in our ability to partner as we wish and need? The baton passes firmly to your generation to achieve that. Will you elect monstrous presidents or good ones? Will you create a fair judiciary and police? Will you ensure that legislation is passed to remove any right to discriminate?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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To put it bluntly timmy
I'm out
the GSA at my school is thriving
i did what needed to be done and what this boy needs to do
step up and put up like i did fighting for the GSA
yeah i respect you old guys
some of you have helped me so much{scott, pauly etc...}
but your ideology of coming out will get us killed is so outdated
yes i know about lawerence king but that was a chance he took
and thats a chance we all have to take to get what we want...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Actually, what he needs is what HE needs, not what you have achieved. You are quite an imposing figure, very few folk would attempt to beat the crap out of you. He may not be quite so substantial, not so sporty.
The right advice is to do in one's own area, what one needs to do. One size does not fit all here.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You also missed the fact that is is 14 and terrified of his parents and their reaction.
Advice is best "given", not "yelled". However right you are convinced that you are, advise gently and from HIS perspective.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy is absolutely right. Im out to my family but not at school. That would be a serious mistake. Jeff is not out to his parents cause they would disown him or worse. You dont deliberately put yourself in harms way. The letter might be a good idea, at least the dude wouldnt know who it was so if he got mad, well he would just get mad.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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Hey, Curtis,
You're back! I'm so glad to see you. I do hope to hear all is well again. And by the way I do agree with your advice.
Love,
Anthony
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In many ways I agree with you, Jordan. Avoiding all risks is impossible, and sometimes a person has to take a chance: otherwise, it may not be possible to live a full life.
It isn't really an age thing - more of a personality one, I think. I came out fully (as opposed to a few select friends) in an election address to 100,000 students, when I was just 25, back in 1980. Yup, there have been downsides, including being queerbashed twice badly enough to need hospital treatment, and twenty years of not talking to my father. But - for me - it was the right decision at the right time. I owed it to myself,and to those who had fought so long (ultimately successfully) to have homosexuality in England decriminalised (for men, over 21, in private) to keep up the pressure for full equality and acceptance.
But, and it is a BIG but, I think it pays to consider very carefully what risks one is prepared to run. For me, that was when I was no longer financially dependant on my parents (I was a self-financing student). All the other risks were ones I was prepared to minimise, but accepted they were always present (such as, there are parts of London where I'd think it too dangerous to hold hands with a boyfriend ... though many places I would do so).
In the end, we never know all the risks. But only the person concerned can judge just how real any risk is, and what the consequences could be. So, the "dude with the crush on the other dude" may judge that in his circumstances the risks are to great at present ... I probably would, in his position.
But I do think it's very sad if people go through life trying to avoid all risks: it isn't really engaging with being alive!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Dang, it's so good to have you back buddy. Welcome home. And I'm really glad that the letter Jon sent to Jeff worked for you guys. But it worked because Jeff had a crush on you as well as you on him. But what if Jeff turned out to be a serious homophobe? And what if he played along with Jon just to find out who you were so he could expose you? When you think about it, the odds were only one in ten that Jeff would turn out to be gay or bi like you. And at 14, this younger dude has even more at stake than you had with possible exposure. It really isn't an easy decision to make when the consequences can be having your parents put you through college on one hand or getting tossed out of the house on the other. And at 14, where do you go?
There is one thing some of the younger guys aren't taking into consideration. They make it all black and white. Either he gets a boyfriend now or he winds up loveless forever. What about the middle ground? What about when he is able to be self supporting and has less to loose? He doesn't have to end up like so many of us have because he lives in different times than we did. I wish it were possible for all 14 year olds to come out, but it just isn't for some. Some may be forced to wait until 18 or even later before trying to make their dreams come true. Life is a balancing act and you just have to constantly adjust your priorities.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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The one thing you didnt mention was that Jeff and I are best friends and we have known each other since first grade. If he had been homophobic I would have known. Im assuming this boy knows the other boy well enough to know if he is a homophobe.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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No. He just knows he adores him.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Well, NW,
I admire you for that. I never had the courage - always cared too much about what other people thought of me and doubted whether I would survive such a negative (as I saw it). I guess I'm still a bit ashamed.
Love,
Anthony
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I think there is some confusion between avoiding risks as opposed to weighing them to determine the best cause of action....
No one can go through life avoiding risks.... get out of bed and you risk tripping on the cat....
But to minimize risk for no better reason than an otherwise unexperienced and remote person to say what they might do is just plain irresponsible......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I totally agree Marc.
I came out at 17- when I was ready to deal with the fallout. Some people might be ready to deal with the fallout at 14, others not until 25. Some possibly later.
Making love to a guy is awesome- but I know straight guys that aren't willing to deal with the fallout of having a relationship before 18- guys whose parents basically expect them to study and nothing else- until they hit 18 and can have their own lives.
I think "waiting" is a sensible option. I encourage everyone to come out- I don't think repression is the way to go. But when and how one comes out are crucial.
As NW said you still minimise risks at times- even after being out. I still don't hold hands in public with Ryan- I did when I lived in the city- but my current suburb is "white trash" enough for me to worry. We haven't came out to his grandma and likely never will I'm just Ryan's "good friend". It does matter what other people think. I wouldn't say better safe than sorry, but sometimes I feel more comfortable with "safe", even at times when I should probably just take the risk.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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To the dude with the crush on the other dude. 
