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My daughter had a steady boyfriend for her first two years of high school. He broke off their relationship [non-sexual but plenty of body contact] in May, leaving her devastated and me confused and saddened. I really liked him and the way he treated my daughter, and I liked his family. I felt she was safe with him and that they wouldn't get too deep too quick.
Well, you can tell from the subject line the rest of the story. He told her he was gay about two weeks after he broke up with her. Apparently he was the last to know: my daughter and my ex-wife suspected, his sister knew, many of his friends knew or suspected, his parents had been hinting that it would be okay to tell them if it were the case, etc., etc. And I had no clue either.
So what is this gaydar thing? Do you have to be born with it, or can it develop after you've pulled the veil from your own eyes?
Brit
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I don't know how some have it but they do. I have a friend who is almost unerringly accurate... I on the other hand am not often. I perhaps might feel that someone is a kindred spirit but with nowhere near the confidence of my friend so tend to keep the opinion to myself.
Paul.
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Dear Brit,
I have a friend with whom (+wife and 2 children) we (my wife and 2 children) we went on holiday year after year for several years.
It is maybe a dozen years ago I was invited to his son's wedding. I was completely gobsmacked to hear him, at the reception afterwards, making a speech including a lot about 'his gay side'.
Later, at a garden party given by his parents he was gobsmacked to find me wearing an AIDS ribbon. (Actually it may have been a year or two before, now I think about it.)
Perhaps I was put off by the fact that he was amazingly beautiful when young. I have photographs (which Marc would disapprove of, 'cos some are naked, to prove it). Anyway if there is such a thing as gaydar, neither of us has it!
I'm expecting to see him again tomorrow at a garden party to celebrate his father's 70th birthday!
Oh and I forgot to mention, he did as I did - told his wife before they got engaged and now he is married with two children as I am.
I hope to find out how it works for him. And, yes, I do intend to frighten the horses by going dressed in tights!
Want a report?
Love,
Anthony
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Yes, I'd love a report!
And I'll add my name to the set of guys who told their wives-to-be about their gay leanings and wound up with two children.
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Well done, Brit,
And I'm dressed and ready to go now in grey and orange tights and top (which doesn't quite match so I'm obviously not properly gay!)
Love,
Anthony
[Updated on: Sun, 13 July 2008 10:25] |
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Someone who has lived as a gay man (not closeted or married and hiding it) usually develop what they call gaydar. If Im around someone for about 30 minutes I can pretty well tell you if they are gay and sometimes even if they are bi. You simply become attuned to the faint minute signals they are giving off. You notice things that would normally go unnoticed. It can be something as simple as the way he holds his hand or something he keeps saying. There is a lot involved and the individual may not even be aware that he is giving off these signals.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Roger wrote:
> Someone who has lived as a gay man (not closeted or married and hiding it) usually develop what they call gaydar.
Alas, I seem to be the exception to this rule - I've been fully out for nearly 30 years, and I'm still singularly deficient in gaydar.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Don't beat yourself up, NW. Some people are sensitive to body language, others completely oblivious to it. Gaydar is, I suppose, an extension of body language.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Report on the lycra tendency:
I got out of bed at 7:30 and made tea for Tim and Pat and took it to them in bed and took some to Sylvia and then went back to bed myself and listened to Radio 4 till it got to 8:10 when they broadcast a church service so we switch it off.
And then I went to have a shower but Tim was using it so I sat on a chair in the conservatory and did a puzzle in the newspaper till Tim came out and went upstairs and then I had my shower and put out croissants for breakfast and went upstairs to get dressed. Up to now I was completely naked. Then I posted a message here about being ready.
Then we got in Tim & Pat's car and she drove us an hour and a half to our friend's garden party. To begin with it was mostly just boring old farts (apart from John and Jennifer, our hosts) but before too long lots of people I know and like began to arrive.
David (I've mentioned him on here I think - of "Great British Bus Journeys" and "Jabez" and several other books) and Peter (who used to share a table in the library with me and has translated Paddington Bear and Harry Potter into Latin) and the hosts' children (Nicholas and Victoria) with whom we went on holiday for many years and their children (Benjamin (9), Sophie (4), Lex (7 - yesterday!), Sable (4) and Isis (4 - they are twins)) and their 2nd cousins Winnie (3) and Phoebe (5). The children made all the difference to me. I played with them and tickled them and teased them. And they brought me bunches of flowers and showed me their drawings.
I got teased about the tights quite a lot - but I think I gave as good as I got. Jane wanted to know whether I had padding and I asked her whether she'd bother to pad her bra and that men's shape was just as well established as women's. I also got asked whether I had come by bicycle! But most people were merely amused when I said that I've been dressing like this all the time for years and just decided not to bother to put on something less comfortable for convention's sake! (There were quite a few people there dressed up all smartly for the occasion!)
And I think that one or two people came and made friendly conversation with me who might not have done if I'd been conventionally dressed. Win and Phoebe's father (another Tim) and another of the hosts old friends Ted "Cholesterol" - many years ago - in the 70's) we had him come round to tea and we gave him scones with butter and cream and Jam. On seeing me opening my mouth wide to receive a half scone loaded high with cream he ejaculated "CHOLESTEROL!" in such a shocked tone that we've remembered it ever since. And I maintain that cholesterol must be good for you how else did I reach the age of 73. Anyway Ted hugged me quite unnecessarily hard and often (though he had his partner (female) with him at the party).
And the party thinned out from about 4 or 5 pm and at 6 the children were fed and at 7 we started the barbecue and I brought out the fillet steak and we cooked for the 15 or 20 adults left. Then we had birthday cakes for Nick (45 today), Lex (7 yesterday) and John (70 last Tuesday) - about half the party seemed to have been born in July or August! We finally departed at about 9 pm and Pat drove us back to Bristol.
I took quite a lot of pictures but there is none in my camera of me - but I'm wearing the same today as yesterday so I'll take a picture and post it to satisfy your inappropriately prurient curiosity!
Love,
Anthony
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Attachment: grey-or.jpg
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[Updated on: Sun, 13 July 2008 11:54] |
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Absolutely beautiful woodwork on that door behind you.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Something that interests me is the number of people who say, "I thought you might be gay," but only after they've found out I'm not straight. I don't believe for a second that they'd have said they thought I was either gay or straight if I had instead said I was heterosexual. I also doubt that their suspicions ever went anywhere near, "David is probably gay," even though they might claim that they did afterwards. These things are often only "known in advance" in retrospect.
These days, I suspect that most people wonder at some point whether a bloke who's not ostentatiously or comfortably interested in girls is gay -- but that's not gaydar, it's just curiosity.
My gaydar, incidentally, is pretty much non-functional -- while I can say to myself, "There's a reasonable chance he's gay," I can never say for sure without asking. I'm still rather embarrassed by my sexuality, and when I'm embarrassed I find it terribly hard to maintain eye contact, which I suspect is a large part of it.
David
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Actually, Roger, It doesn't look so good when the contrasting foreground is removed! 
Love,
Anthony
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Yes, David, I can understand that. I'm still a bit shy to come out with it.
At the croquet club today somehow the subject of Gene Robinson (the gay bishop) came up and Hamish said that he didn't think it was proper for men to share a bedroom "unless they are brothers, of course" !!! I responded "Oh so it's alright if it's incest then." He was put out of countenance.
I'm pretty sure he suspects me but doesn't dare to say anything because he knows my wife. But of course I was dressed as in the photo I posted earlier today.
HOW CAN HE NOT SUSPECT?
People amaze me.
Love,
Anthony
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David,
I generally avoid eye contact because it makes me feel threatened and threatening. On my recent vacation, I realized that I was looking down or any place but people's faces, and started to wonder what signals or friendly overtures or everyday human interactions I might be missing. It's hard, like you say, but I'm trying to change this behavior and make more eye contact. Maybe I'll start seeing more body language. Then again, maybe I'll offend some goon who proceeds to pound my head into the concrete. Won't know unless I try.
Thanks for the response.
Brit
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Yes, Brit, eye contact gives a lot away.
When I go down the road in the morning for the paper I look at people walking the other way and when they look at me I do get eye contact.
Very strikingly nearly all women dressed in an asian way cast their eyes to the pavement. About half the blokes smile and respond to "good morning", but the other half obviously think it is improper to wear tights or that it is dangerous for them to smile at or look at someone who might be gay and scowl or look away.
But I think looking people in the face and realising that you aren't actually giving anything away but a friendly smile is confidence-boosting for me. And I find it sad to see how many people don't have the confidence to do that.
Love,
Anthony
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