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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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I found this today on one Slovak gay site. I decided to post it here since I like it very much, here is the translated version:
Homosexuality is an inconvertible decision of Nature as a divergence: but not sin! Individuality, but not a crime or an obscene depravity! Difference, but in real life often more moral than many of relationships of indignity between a man and a woman, which are legalised by officials or in front of any Gods' altars. In families, where everyone suffers, especially children due to being born not into loving and functioning system, but into damaging loneliness of emotional wrecks. Simply, homosexuality is being different, but it is no diagnosis or curable illness, therefore it is not registered in International Classification of Illnesses (which registers thousands of known illnesses). Researches confirm, that homosexuality has solely inherent, rarely inherited, basis determined by nature, irreveresibly fixed within one's ontogenesis.
In Slovak it probably sounded more complex, nut here it is. The attitude I agree with.
Mark
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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We are as we are. Accept us.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Hey, Timmy,
it seems that there are only two people discussing at the moment, don't you agree?
Mark
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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Marek wrote:
it seems that there are only two people discussing at the moment
Hi, Marek. You have to be patient. Remember, the people who come here live all over this planet and the time differences are very great. Also, like you and me, people have lives to lead, and they can't be online all day.
As far as the manifesto is concerned: I don't think it means much one way or the other. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else in the world knows why some people are gay: It could be genetic, it could be acquired in remotest infancy. There are probably other valid opinions: I just mentioned the two most prominent ones. What they all have in common is that homosexuality is a variant in human sexuality over which the subject has no control. (I mean, no control over the sexuality, not what one does with it.)
In many countries people are beginning to understand this and to accept this variation in human sexuality as natural and legitimate (even if some gay-friendly straight people can't understand it).
We have embarked on a long road towards acceptance. I doubt very much whether we shall reach the end of that road in our lifetimes, but we shall never get there if we don't keep on marching.
Hugs,
JFR
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Hey JFR,
I realise what time it is, thus (jokingly) I wrote that one...
There is a statement that defines the life of every human being:
You wrote:
What they all have in common is that homosexuality is a variant in human sexuality over which the subject has no control. (I mean, no control over the sexuality, not what one does with it.)
Everyone has something that they have no power over, but the only important thing is what they really do. We decide neither the place nor time of our birth, nor the genome we are given, nor the temper and personal qualities. The only thing we influence is the time we are given, how we spend it.
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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JFR wrote:
>We have embarked on a long road towards acceptance. I doubt very much whether we shall reach the end of that road in our lifetimes, but we shall never get there if we don't keep on marching.
If there is still this much resistance to racial integration in the U.S., then it's safe to assume it will take a good, long while for gays and lesbians to be accepted. There will always be bullies and those with low self esteem who try to raise themselves by stepping on others. They just don't understand what race bashing and gay bashing says about them on a much deeper level. We must concentrate on what the majority of folk feel about us rather than the perceptions of the ignorant. The ignorant will always be with us - intolerance is passed from father to son and mother to daughter.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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Paul, I would suggest that there is a significant difference between racial prejudice and that against gays and lesbians. That difference being the religious nature of the prejudice against gays. I believe that is why the progress towards acceptance that gays and lesbians have experienced has been more rapid (decades rather than centuries).
I certainly do agree with your statement, "The ignorant will always be with us - intolerance is passed from father to son and mother to daughter."
JimB
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You see our progress as being rapid. However, homosexuality was an anathema even during the years of slave ownership. Our struggles are at least as old as the racial one. Many churches, mostly in the South, embraced slavery as being God ordained - using the New Testament admonishments for 'slaves to obey their masters'. But today there are few churches that I'm aware of that accept the mastery of one human being over another. Not so in the case of homosexuality. While we have made some inroads in the splinter groups of mainstream denominations, the majority still hold to the biblical precept that homosexuality is an abomination. It will take a generation or two for the hard corps believers to die out before a more practical interpretation of the scriptures becomes common.
But this is, as you have pointed out, a religious struggle. We have, for whatever reason, seemed to have gained a rather quick acceptance in 'mainstream' society. We have to be patient for religious intolerance to fade away however.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I think we all should just go to a big island somewhere and start our own country...
Now..... Hmmmmmmm......
What should we call it?
And I already have a national bird;-D
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I suppose we'd call it the Isle of Man. But how would we produce the next generation?
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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Very interesting, Paul. The reason I feel that our progress has been rapid is that I don't agree that our struggles are "at least as old as the racial one". Oppression yes, struggle no. We quietly remained in the closet, as the saying goes, even those who were famous. Like some who participate on this forum today, marriage was expected and the route many, or most, took even when they knew it wasn't really right for them.
I believe that the struggle for gay/lesbian acceptance and equality began during my lifetime, while that against racial prejudice is centuries old.
JimB
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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An interesting question, Nigel. There is a sci-fi story currently on Nifty called "Teep" that addresses this with artificial wombs. Naturally, the offspring are all gay since the DNA of both "parents" is gay.
JimB
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Yes, Uncle Jim,
I think you are right. It didn't exactly begin in our lifetime but before the second world war there were very few and weak efforts to have homosexuality accepted.
An interesting side effect of the war was that a great many people were persuaded to be more altruistic and to think about how society should be changed for the better and hence such things as the NHS and redistibutive taxation which greatly evened out the differences between the better off and the poorest. One effect of rationing was a huge improvement in the health of the poorest.
I think the idealism and altruism fostered by having everyone pulling together to fight the war spread and even reached such subjects as sexuality. It was perhaps odd that I knew that the trustee who handed over the money to enable me to go to university (the funds originated from my father) was homosexual. He was a night fighter navigator and was in love with the gunner - or so I was told! I'm sure I knew this before the end of the 1940s; that is before I was sixteen.
Now I know my family was unusual but that shows some measure of tolerance was growing. And the Wolfenden report recommended repeal in 1957 (I think) of the laws punishing homosexual acts and eventually that great man Roy Jenkins did get it repealed in 1967.
But nowadays the Stonewall group can print posters and postcards with the slogan "Some people are Gay: get over it."
Love,
Anthony
PS thank you for the comparative pictures; you are lasting well!
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Imports.
For a name I was thinking perhaps.... Fairy Land.
And of course the national birs could be nothing less than the Swallow.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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