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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Our news has just shown the massive evacuation of the city. It's somehow impersonal, a movie, a thing happening far away.
Obviously it's not a movie. Obviously there are many highly nervous folk there in real life dramas. Equally obviously there will be looting. But this time one hopes that any death toll will be minimal.
In a bizarre way one hopes that the storm will be bad enough to justify the evacuation. If it is not, will folk take notice of the next one?
Do we know anyone in the affected area?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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timmy wrote:
> Our news has just shown the massive evacuation of the city. It's somehow impersonal, a movie, a thing happening far away.
Well,,, you are far away..... it should feel that way.
>
> Obviously it's not a movie. Obviously there are many highly nervous folk there in real life dramas. Equally obviously there will be looting. But this time one hopes that any death toll will be minimal.
Funny thing about people that choose to build their homes 12 feet below sea level.... I don't feel they are getting less than they bargained for... same goes for those that rebuild in an annual flood zone of a river... How many times before one says "duh... lets build on the hill"
>
> In a bizarre way one hopes that the storm will be bad enough to justify the evacuation. If it is not, will folk take notice of the next one?
If folks continue to build in a hole known to fill with water do you actually believe they have the brainpower to react to a warning?
>
> Do we know anyone in the affected area?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I watched a special on TV about New Orleans and the coming storm. scientist have determined that because the Mississipi River has been dreged and bolstered up with levies, there is no settament build up at the mouth of the river and therefor New Orleans is sinking a half inch a year. Eventually the dikes there arnt going to hold the water back forever. If I lived there I would sell and move to higher ground.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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The eye of the storm is expected to make landfall early afternoon tomorrow, just west of New Orleans. The heaviest rain, strongest wind and greatest storm surge is usually northeast of the eye, just about where New Orleans is located.
The surge is predicted to be about 14 feet (Katrina was 25 feet) which may overtake some of the older levees.
The following IS from foxnews, but is a good story about the condition of the levees in New Orleans.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,414164,00.html
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 01:43]
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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The potential for property damage is real, and possible loss of life can be avoided by preemptive planning (is that redundant?). I am not downplaying the danger of the storm and its impact on the New Orleans area. One, I think Marc is correct in saying that anyone building in an area that is below sea level and is protected only by man-made levees is stupid (i paraphrased), especially when the area has already been flooded many times throughout history. Two, i think E.J.'s post says exactly what the danger level is to the existing infrastructure.
IMHO, aside from all the actual concern about property and human safety, the real reason is political. Three years ago yesterday was one of the biggest debacles in the history of FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) when they failed to act on the information given to them about the approaching hurricane Katrina. They failed to mobilize and evacuate the city. The history can be found on the web, so I won't go into detail. In short, it was a PR disaster for President Bush. The FEMA director had no clue as to what to do. I seem to remember he was given that job as a reward from Bush for supporting him in something with the election. The entire response was handled incredibly poorly. The blame for the disaster was placed squarely on Bush's shoulders. The magnitude of the inability to adequately respond was another benchmark of the Bush's administration's bungling of events.
Hurricane Gustav's timing is such that it is slated to make landfall during the Republican National Convention. There is no way the Republicans can afford to look like they are as incompetent as they were three years ago. My opinion is they are trying to look like they know what they are doing this time as a show for the general public, all on the backs of the citizens of New Orleans.
I have on my Nomex suit for those who wish to disagree with me.
Scott
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 01:08]
Cycling is the one sport where a guy can shave his legs, wear spandex and bright colors, and be accepted.
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Nomex not needed, however....
It is the job of the local government to implement evacuation plans when an emergency happens. These plans are reviewed and approved by the federal government.
When Katrina was approaching the local and state governments fought over whether or not to evacuate (they were worried about looking like idiots if the storm wasn't bad enough).
After the storm hit they tried to leave but could not, since all of the buses that were to be used to evacuate the people were stored in an area of town that was now under 10 feet of water (good planning). The mayor learned from his previous mistakes and this time got most people out before the storm.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080831/D92TH7KO0.html
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 01:40]
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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Marc wrote:
Funny thing about people that choose to build their homes 12 feet below sea level.... I don't feel they are getting less than they bargained for... same goes for those that rebuild in an annual flood zone of a river... How many times before one says "duh... lets build on the hill"
I cannot fault Marc's reasoning. But I would point out that building one's home in a spot known to be dangerous seems to be an ancient human failing, not just a modern one. Why on earth did the Romans build Pompeii and Herculaneum right under a volcano known to be active? For that matter, why is the city of Naples still sitting right under that volcano? I suppose it may be the "It won't happen to me" syndrome.
I suppose it would be sensible for the citizens of New Orleans to sell up and go elsewhere. But to whom would they sell their properties?
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Shrugs, all I can say being from the third coast is at least they seem to be doing the right thing this time.
New Orleans is about the worst place as far as hurricanes go, but that’s true on any coast that is at risk of being hit by a tropical, sub tropical cyclone!
Are they going to stop building in any of these areas, even New Orleans? LOL highly unlikely!
Have no worries though fema has something like 10,000 coffins stored over in Mississippi.
Let’s just hope the evacuation goes better than the one they tried in Houston when they turned most of the major highways going out of the cities into huge parking lots… My nephew was caught in one I think the same years as Katrina. A few wing nuts run out of gas and man you have a real cluster F**k.
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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What else would you expect from Texas, after all they gave us Bush ;-D
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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We have a similar issue here, where the authorities happily grant planning permission for developments on flood plains and old water meadows.
The same authorities derive huge annual revenues from the properties built there.
As a homeowner one feels that, if it has been granted permission n to be there, it must be safe.
I live currently on a hilltop. When I move, eventually, to Devon I will still be substantially above the highest ever known flood line.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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J F R wrote:
>
> I suppose it would be sensible for the citizens of New Orleans to sell up and go elsewhere. But to whom would they sell their properties?
>
> J F R
People looking for water view retirement property?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Don't most people look for that from ABOVE the surface of the water?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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pipo
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: July 2008
Messages: 35
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Funny that the article you link states Publicly, the corps says the work is on budget and will be done by 2011. In my local newspaper they quoted a Dutch engineering company that is involved in the levee rebuilding. They say that no way the works will be completed before 2012 and that New Orleans is definitely not protected against a hurricane like Katrina today.
Also the "100-year levee" standard (more like 30-year mean time between failure if you read the article) seems awfully unsafe. Holland is also mostly below sea level and our standards proscribe a 1 in 10,000 safety level, meaning sea dikes should breach no more than once every 10,000 years. Having said that, it is easier to reach that security level here because the storms are less severe.
They recently upgraded the so-called "dunes" in the sea-side town where my office is --they are supposed to look like natural dunes for the German tourists, but in fact there is a reinforced concrete dike inside-- so I know from personal experience that our government is serious in maintaining the security level. A local hotel received complaints from said German tourists that the promised sea view actually is a dune view now ;-D. The office where I work is 2 meter below sea level and only a couple of miles from the coast, so I think safety is worth a few complaints.
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 15:37] |
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saw video of water going over the levees along the Industrial Canal. This is an older levee, not the one that failed during Katrina.
Water is still raising...
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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