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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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But my thoughts ran towards "is it worth it?"
The topic is by no means as uncontroversial as ones about role models, but that one caused me to consider why I post at all. Most replies were fine, but the one that attacked me, or that I felt attacked me, really put me off.
So my thoughts ran to our less tough minded or our younger members, and I wondered how they must feel in these circumstances. I know the "lads" are off to college and I assume they are busy as you like, but we haven't seen Curtis for a while, and I wonder if he is also wondering whether to post.
But if posts don't happen then this place is useless. And if it's useless I may as well close it down.
But I don't want to close it down.
I created it to help people by letting them help themselves. When I created it I asked people if another forum was needed. They said it was.
So why am I now nervous to post on my own board?
Easy. I dislike being attacked. I dislike it a lot.
The thing is, there is only one person who attacks, and he was one of those who said "Yes, there is a need for a new forum" all that time ago. Every time I challenge him he promises to improve.
I concede that the attacks have improved. Their politeness improves and the attack is thus the more effective for that reason. Yes, they have improved. So has the underlying rudeness. It is now cloaked with a veneer of apparent politeness. Very well done, that. Clever.
If I post this topic I am sure I'll be attacked. So I am going to content myself with this post. I do have a topic for it, but it isn't the topic I had in mind when I started to write.
This is the subject line:
Stop veiled rudeness and personal attacks
And the meat of the post?
> I, we, have all had enough of it. Enough warnings, enough pleas, enough requests, enough of all of the paraphernalia that goes with it. So I, we, want it stopped.
> It isn't bluntness, plain speaking or any other euphemism. It's rudeness bordering on arrogance.
> I am fed up with needing a fellow member as a cop here. I have had enough of it.
> So, Marc, you need this place. I know you need it. Sometimes you need a friend to hold up a mirror and show you what you are doing. This is one of those times. You need this place. Keep the veiled rudeness and attacks up and you will take it away from yourself.
> I will not be made afraid to post in case you attack me. I will not allow it to happen to anyone else either. Nor by anyone else. But at present I feel abused by you. I am a victim of my friendship with you and feel that I am being abused. Or I feel that you feel you can behave as you do because we are friends. And that is abuse.
> Whatever you perceive your interactions here to be, I perceive them as I have painted above. If your perception differs from mine then know that in this case mine holds sway. And I will not be abused any more.
[Updated on: Wed, 10 September 2008 13:25]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Fine, then I will agree with whatever you post.... I will agree with whatever anyone else posts....
Now you have created an automoton....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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What you have done is to make me feel abused. And I have taken it because I am your friend. But you are not the victim here. You have made me feel abused.
I have created nothing at all except a forum where it is intended that peace and good behaviour should reign supreme. So disagree with people well and do so with pleasure. Have contradictory opinions with pleasure provided they are expressed well and with true civility, not as veiled rudeness.
Behave against this ethos and you will take the forum away from yourself. Actions have consequences. What happens from here on will be your free choice.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Yes sir.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Marc wrote:
> Yes sir.
I will leave you to think, and to think hard. All I know is that a true friend does not persist in making his friend feel abused. I feel abused by you. And I have had enough of it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Often I feel abused by you, but that is another story....
I just don't see whare I have abused you.... Or how for that matter.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Moderator
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2008
Messages: 3
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I think that this discussion should continue via private email between friends. I am going to lock this thread.
Moderator
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I appreciate the step you have taken and the logic behind it. I have unlocked it, however. I feel that this does affect us all, and it needs to be played out in public. What I hope is that the eventual conclusion meets all needs.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Accusation and counter accusation is not the way to go here.
The problem of why and how I feel abused is evident if you will step back and look "as an outsider come to the forum anew".
We are, I hope, friends. I say "I hope" because I am aware that you may not consider us such with this exchange happening. As friends we chat about many things away from the forum. Because I know you have particular needs because of your experiences in life and I know how they affect your present day life I have made and continue to make decisions about your behaviour that give you a huge benefit of the doubt.
I see you modify that behaviour, for a while at least, and then I see it slide back to behaviours that I find unacceptable here. In private between us I don't care HOW you behave. That is in private. But in public I deprecate behaviours that alienate other people.
I feel that, in public, you have taken advantage of my friendship to the extent that it appears that you feel that you can get away with just about anything. Perhaps I need to take some responsibility for that, since you have, in the past, been able to do that.
I became either the butt of your humour, or the subject of some sort of bizarre personal attack when you declared I lacked the gonads to find a role model. Perhaps that is trivial, but trivial things cause one to harden one's attitude. This hardened mine. It hurt. It hurt much more unpleasantly that I expected. It was unexpected, vicious, and abusive.
And that is symptomatic of what others have felt. Note, please Curtis's post just now.
When you behave well we all respect you. You have much to say of value. But when you are in the frame of mind that allows the unpleasant behaviours to escape into the wild we all concentrate on the unpleasant atmosphere and stop posting other things.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Timmy, Marc,
It distresses me to see you at odds with each other. I don't think it is arguing that is the worry. Some people on here have political and social opinions that really are distasteful to me but what they say hasn't ever upset me, or as far as I know anyone else.
I think there are one or two things that would improve things. A bulletin board allows extremely short messages. But the shorter a message is the easier it is for it to be misunderstood, especially when the answer to a question "What did you mean?" is met with the equivalent of "Please yourself and if you don't like it you can fuck off." Really, politeness calls for thought out responses expressed carefully in sentences that have been considered at least as far as proof-reading them. Laconic, abrupt comments with mis-spellings say, in between the lines, that the recipient isn't worth the trouble of a proper explanation over which enough trouble has been taken to correct typos and remove unintentional deprecation (and that ought to be ALL deprecation).
I have a suggestion. Please don't take offence at it. Why not get Kevin to read through your posts, Marc, and get him to tell you where there are things that might be out of line BEFORE posting them..
Tell me if I'm out of line, please.
Love,
Anthony
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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All I did was to state a fact. It is something that you have posted on many many times in the past in one way or another. It was not in any way breaking new ground nor was it intended to be derogatory or meanly written.
It is just a fact that if you or anyone wants something you or anyone has to reash out for it.
I didn't intend to hurt your feelings.... but I also stand by what I said.... It takes nerve to go for what you, me or anyone wants. To not get it reflects on the degree of effort...
I'm sorry if you feel put out. It wasn't my intent.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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John..
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: March 2008
Messages: 56
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When people make statements that go against the grain, it can be difficult to accept what others or an individual thinks.
But on here we offer advise on how we see the problem or subject laid out.
and yes it is for young or old gay or indeed confused people to air there problem and have good people give an opinion on perhaps the way forward.
There are people who hide behind a cloak, some are young and some older,some people yes don't post because they feel they will be shot down by the regular speakers.
All people that post myself included need to take a deep breath, and realise others have opinions that differ from your own.
As for the owner of the board, well he walks a narrow line, so yes a moderator is the best way forward.
Topics will come up that we are uncomfortable with , you may think the guy that just posted was a fool, but we all think at different levels, most importantly the young do.
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I want to note something
so note:
it is human nature for people to develop a set of behaviors and to let them take control if they are not held in check or modified by other controls
Politely it is my opinion that Marc needs a editor{such as Kevin} on occasions when he is posting snide or inappropriate comments to check and balance him and suggest a way to improve it so it can still say what he wishes but in a more diplomatic form
Dzienkuje
Jordan
[Updated on: Wed, 10 September 2008 22:01] |
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We're all different: I, on the other hand value Jordan's views and opinions as being an interesting component of the diversity of views and experiences to be found here.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Quis custodies ipsos custodiet?
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It was freely given once you understood my thought processes. So I accept it freely.
Now let us move on. I was upset. I am not now upset.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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too late at night for remembering the genitive of Caesar, so "Caesar's Wife", probably.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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While I by no means always agree with what Jordan or others say, I welcome all views when well expressed and delivered with true politeness and consideration. We may then choose to disagree with similar politeness and consideration.
Disagreement is welcome here, but fights are not. I perceive Marc's reaction to Jordan as a fight, and I ask him to withdraw it. Whatever differences these two may have, unless expressed politely, they should not be aired here.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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In the interests of being even handed, I think that capital letters here were unwise. They could be seen as provoking a reaction. I'd prefer you to remove them, please.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Caesar's wife was too busy being above suspicion.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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That's the girl for the job, though!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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