|
|
|
|
Does nobody on here do things they are ashamed of?
I'm full of admiration for so many of you and what you do and your solutions to moral dilemmas and I hope I make that clear in my posts.
But I originally arrived to let some old ghosts out of the cupboard - things I am ashamed of - and I have.
Or is it just that I'm not paying attention again? 
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
acam wrote:
> Does nobody on here do things they are ashamed of?
What an interesting and complex question!
When I was in my teens, I did a lot of things that were wrong, and that I knew at the time were wrong. Not only the "tearaway adolescent" stuff (vandalism, taking and dealing drugs, the odd spot of arson and theft, etc), but the "joining in with the crowd" stuff, like failing to stand up for people who were being picked on, and even occasionally joining in bullying. They are things in my history that I don't normally talk about much ... so in that sense I guess you could say that I'm ashamed. But, and it's a big but, I do recognise that they have very much shaped the way I am today, and I do (most of the time) like myself and how I am. And that means recognising and accepting all the steps, good and bad, that have led me here. So in some sense, I don't regret having done them.
So, moving on to nowadays. Most of the things that I do that I'm not proud of are sins of omission - of not always living up to the standards I aim for. Like not making time for people, not keeping in touch with friends, and so forth. But "ashamed" would be putting it a bit strongly.
There is, however, one area where I do have a deep shame. It may well be irrational, and it's certainly *very* hard to talk about. But (emboldened by timmy's post yesterday) here goes ...
Every couple of months, I overdo things a bit and insult my damaged back. So, I have a few days when I can barely walk, and where I get "referred pain" - it feels as though I've been kicked in the balls, for periods of six or eight hours at a stretch, for several days. Once the pain gets past a certain point, it triggers a major depressive fit. All of which I'm happy to talk about.
But depression isn't only about feeling blue and bursting into tears. There's a whole bunch of other stuff ... the complete inability to bother about any kind of personal care. And that lasts longer ... up to ten days or so. Oh, if it happens to occur over days when I have to be at work, I put on a social facade, a clean shirt, and shave, and no-one notices. But at home I cannot make myself change my clothes, put out the rubbish, shower, or even put dirty cups and plates in the dishwasher. So I gradually accumulate a pile of used and dirty stuff everywhere - used tissues on the bedroom floor where I've been having crying fits, half-eaten food over every worktop, etc. When I had cats, I couldn't even empty the litter tray.
And yes, I am deeply ashamed of these periods of living in squalor. I would be mortified if my (few) friends or family were to see me then ... fortunately, none live locally, so no--one has ever dropped in unannounced (and I probably wouldn't answer the door if they did). I think this is only the second time that I've felt strong enough to admit the details to anyone, anywhere.
As I said, most of the time I like myself. but at such times, I don't ... and wouldn't expect anyone else to, either!
sorry if it's a bit of a long and rambling reply!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
 |
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
When I was young I was sent off for ....adjustment.... That was only one part of the problem.... once there I was also taken advantage of by some of the ....attendants....
It was brutal, it was often, it was the only contact or (i'm not sure if this is the right word) "attention".... I recieved other than the "treatments"
At first I was terrorfied.... but after some while I grew to like the "attention" and at some point craved it.... even the most vile of things they planned....
This went on for 8 months and a little more....
I think I need to go throw up now....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Interesting, yes, but I truly feel we need to get away from the guilt shame and blame trip that religionists lay on us.
Yes we all do things that are wrong as we grow up, LOL if you don't, then something is wrong! We need to hopefully learn from these experiences make amendments in our behavior and go on living life as best we can.
Marc I see no shame in your experience, I see survival instincts. What do they call it the Stockholm syndrome?
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JimB
|
 |
Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
|
|
|
Being a victim is not something to be ashamed of.
JimB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
|
|
|
I wonder if those are shame, in a way.
I am deeply ashamed that I married. Yet I married for love. But, by marrying a sweet, kind, beautiful girl I have hurt her. She "knew" I was who and what I am, but she failed to listen and I failed to express it properly.
I am shamed of the way I lost my virginity, in public, proving to my friends I was not queer, and I am more ashamed that I avoided the girl from that point on.
I'm ashamed that I was a bully in school. My excuse is that I was bullied and I felt it was normal. As soon as I understood I stopped, but too late for some boys.
I'm ashamed that I went to parties and left almost every time with someone else's girlfriend, "because I could" and because it really didn't matter to me.
I'm ashamed of the way I treated Johnnie, badly, because I had no idea how to treat him well. I needed him to see me. And perhaps he hated what he saw.
Is that the type of thing you meant?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
|
|
|
That is pretty darned brave.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
|
|
|
We have spoken about this often. It was human contact, even if inhumanly delivered. And one "makes a truce" in one's mind with an abuser to allow it to be 'tolerable'.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
|
|
|
When I cross the boundary within my own morality, then I am ashamed.
As an example, I am not ashamed to be naked (in appropriate situations), though it is not the prettiest sight! I used to be embarrassed because I was trained to be embarrassed, but I was never ashamed. Religion makes nakedness shameful.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
But there is more.
When later, after I was sent off to school, for about 3 years I began going in search of more of the same.
This was not a walk to the back side of the local sports park, it was getting on a train on friday afternoon and riding into Boston only to return Monday morning.
Some of the People were nice but most were not.
The summer vacations were most strange.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
|
|
|
Surely this just means you became habituated to it rather than anything else?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
james
|
 |
Getting started |
Location: England
Registered: September 2008
Messages: 24
|
|
|
thats so true
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you everyone. Your candour is affecting me. NW being ashamed of letting himself and his place go when he's depressed speaks to me. I think I would do that but for Sylvia.
I don't think Marc has told us anything he should be ashamed about (maybe how he behaved from Friday to Monday? - but how can we tell?). I think if I had been subjected to that sort of thing I would have gone completely off the rails. I don't think anyone would have described me as a strong person while I was under 20. I was 'a good boy' and mostly did what I was told. For example no-one told me to pray or to abstain from self-abuse (which was what they called it then) or to give my pocket money to starving africans. I was brought up in a sort of cocoon that insulated me from the real world and I have no idea whether that was good for me or bad for me. People not subject to such insulation (like Michael) have had ten years of sex life before they reached the age when I first had sexual feelings for anyone in particular. Was I robbed? How can I tell?
I do agree that religion had nothing to do with it as far as I am concerned because I've had no doubts since school that what religion said was both false (always) and wrong (most of the time) and I've not felt guilt about that.
But I was ashamed that I let the chaplain seduce me and I was ashamed at some of the ways I behaved when I lusted after John and he wouldn't play (though he was gay and is still living in a partnership he entered in 1956!!) and I am above all ashamed at the way I treated George, who loved me and was kind and generous.
But I'm not ashamed of marrying or of having and loving children or of giving up sex with men, maybe for the rest of my life. What a strange thing for a gay man to say! But I believe it. And there are several people here who could tempt me! And I'm not ashamed of being tempted because I arrogantly don't think I shall fail the test.
Tell the truth and shame the devil they say!
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Welcome, Jack,
I'm trying to set an example here of what one can admit to and have nobody think worse of me however bad it is.
Your turn!
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
unsui
|
|
Likes it here |
Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
|
|
|
No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 19:25] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
unsui
|
|
Likes it here |
Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
|
|
|
No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 17:34] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Benji
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
|
|
|
Ashamed! Plenty, if I hold it up to myself I would quiver at my own sight. I f I allow it to dictate my life, than I'm no longer a human being. To Marc, I would tell you, you are not the only one to suffer inhumane treatment. Granted I was abused but not at the extreme you suffered at the young age. I was subjected to torture in my 'older' years when I was in the service. I wish not to launch in a tirade with you Marc, only know you were not alone in this. Summary, we have nothing to be ashamed of.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
I don't think I feel any shame for things that were litteraly out of my control.
Later however, I made choices to follow the path that was made apparent to me due to those very same things I had no control over.
For 3+ years, the entire time I was at the school that I was sent off to, I did things, some for the money so I could have the things kids want, some for the drugs that allowed me to forget what I was doing for the money, and all for the sex because at the time it was what I needed.
Most of the liazons I won at that time were willing to pay just about any price for what I was offering, some wanted somewhat more and reciprocated with toys, travel and more. Some were abusive and at the time I craved that too.
After high school I managed to break free from that routine and managed to gain admission into a good university, there I met Rick and he became the fucus of my life. I would do anything he asked if it were to make him happy and I was pleased to do it. We fell into a job together and my past only served to add to the magic we created.
Ashamed... I'm not entirely sure if I am or not, but I think it has more to do with the angle I am viewing the situation when I am remembering.
I do know I am not proud of some of the things I have done in the past.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mark, many long years ago I read your story about that time of your life and if you felt any shame for it, then I want you to know that what you said made me change my attitude about being gay. I had, before that time, felt "I was dealt a bad hand" as they say and then I saw how absolutely "lucky" I had been compared to you; I did cry a bit inside for being so stupid as to think I had suffered from my situation.
I recall reading what happened to you and thinking to myself that it would have been so easy to have it happen to me. All it would have taken was for one of those boys I had slept with on sleepovers, to say something. Surprisingly I was never blackmailed over it.
I will also say that the combination of religion and my guilt and shame over what I did from the time I was perhaps early teens through my early 40's resulted in some fairly intense guilt. It took some self analysis to figure out it all and quit feeling so much guilt and shame. A lot of it is still there.
Ken
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, Timmy,
all of those! And one or two of them made me cringe with my memories.
But losing your virginity in public sounds like a story that must be told and being able to leave parties with other people's girlfriends sounds wicked (in both senses) and you must have been quite a guy to be able to do that.
I'd like to see what you looked like in those days.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
