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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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We host many different authors here, all for different reasons. Some gain some sort of fame, like Grasshopper, and I often wonder why some of the others don't seem to get the same following.
I liked this author's first tale. But his second beats it hollow for me. I very much doubt we're going to see any sex, I suspect he may simply cut to waves! But we don't need it.
I recommend that you look at Minky's World, by Paul Schroder. Yes, it has appeared on Nifty. Paul was very reasonably impatient while I was dealing with my alcoholic builder, but it will be up to date here very soon, and then appear here ahead of Nifty.
So pop over to http://iomfats.org/storyshelf/hosted/schroder/ and have a look. If you like it, email Paul.
[Updated on: Thu, 02 October 2008 20:56]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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I like "Minkys'World", for me this is much better than 'Geeks'.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I think maybe "different" is the word. I think Minky's world has a special something. Others will say that of Geeks, either instead, or too. 
[Updated on: Thu, 02 October 2008 20:56]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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hehe
*cheers for minky*
minky is probably the most lovable character ive ever read
and nicky too
hehe
*yay!*
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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I really enjoyed Geeks and started to read Minky. It seems neat, we will see...
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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Thank you so much for the kind words. This little tale is a delight to write. Fantasy and science fiction have been my favorites for as long as I can remember. The world of fantasy and 'what ifs' were important to me as a gay, closeted youth. There were no gay heroes in any of the stories I read however. One of the realities I escaped from were that society viewed my kind as twisted and perverse. I sometimes wonder, today, if my life, my attitudes and emerging self esteem would have progressed differently if there had been gay heroes for me to read about. So, Minky's World, and any other stories I may contrive in the future, will be an effort to provide today's generation of teens with some sort of role models.
Minky and Nicholas are fanciful constructs in a fantasy world. To this extent they aren't real. But what is real are the self doubts, the desires, the love and all the emotions felt by any gay teen of any generation. And I think, to the biggest extent, it pursues the question most often thought of by such a teen... 'am I lovable for who and what I am? Is there someone out there for me?' I hope this little tale gives them some added courage and conviction that they are just as normal as their straight counterparts - that they can achieve whatever they set their hearts and minds towards achieving. But mostly, it is okay to be gay.
Thanks for reading. Paul Schroder
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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I am minky...
I am Nicholas...
I understand who i am and im proud of it
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Paul said....
if my life, my attitudes and emerging self esteem would have progressed differently if there had been gay heroes for me to read about.
I think we are about the same ages.... give or take....
Yet I had a large pile of books with gay hero characters in them, written mostly by gay authors as well....
This makes me wonder if they were just not available to you (and others) at the time?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I'm similar in years. In my early teens, 1965 onwards, there was nothing to read with any gay heroes. I was a voracious reader. Our local library and I were well acquainted and I read my way through their entire fiction section.
1968 or so I found Lord Dismiss Us but complete accident. I thought it was odd, being a school adventure in an adult library. What was amazing then is turgid prose today.
I was told to read Fielding Gray by Johnnie. "You'll like this book," he said. I didn't. But early on there was an older/younger boy encounter that led to the younger killing himself. I always wondered why he said I should read it.
Mary Renault came into my world at about the same time. Some of her characters were heroes. Alexander The Great certainly was. So was the young boy who was castrated and became his slave. But I couldn't identify with any.
I'd love to know, Marc, some of your catalogue. I'll look for some of them. Even today I need someone to identify with. Minky and Nicky are pretty good. I also like the lads in Just One Starfish. And, oddly, I'm re-reading Chris and Nigel and finding it as if written by someone else. There are loads of fictional heroes of the modern genre, many on the site here, but I also missed out on real queer fiction as a teenager.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I no longer have many of the volumes themselves....
all that was a lifetime ago and I have moved perhaps 30 times so things get culled from the herd so to speak.....
Many of the authors I frequented were.....
Oscar Wilde
Chris Isherwood, "a single man", "down there on a visit", I still have
Truman Capote
Gordon Merrick "the strumpet wind" I still have
There were many more though
[Updated on: Sun, 05 October 2008 19:46]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Oscar Wilde I just knew as a playwright. After the Stephen Fry film I found I identified very much more closely with him. Gay, married, and in some sort of denial.
Of the others, I had heard of none, not then.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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So did I, Timmy,
I don't think I read anything about gay people while I was at school or even when I was in the navy. It took some courage to buy the Wolfenden report on homosexuality and prostitution, but it was published in 1957, I think, when I was 22.
And I don't really know whether it would have helped me if I had. I think it was a blessing, in a way, that I was so unaware. But maybe there were such books? "Maurice" for example? I was 20 in 1954. What was published before then in the UK?
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Maurice was published in 1971, after Forster's death
[Updated on: Sun, 05 October 2008 22:01]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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A question for you, Timmy:
Are you planning to continue Chris and Nigel's story? Or is there a different idea? Another story to come?
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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I thought it might be, Timmy. Thank you for saving me the effort of finding out.
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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http://iomfats.org/storyshelf/iomfats/chrisandnigel/book3/epilogue.html really says it all. I'll quote it below. I am writing a novel at the moment, though I have been away from it for about four months. That novel will not be internet published. I am going to submit it to mainstream publishing houses. It is the real story of my growing up in the school where I fell in love, written as a diary.
It has real lives in it, real happenings, and is what life for one gay kid was like in 1965-1970 at a Public School in Surrey in the UK.
What has happened to Chris and Nigel? It's now 25th October 2006
Not a truly simple question to answer, but easy, too.
The story was the first story I ever wrote. That probably shows in the early chapters. And I love all the characters in it. There is some of me in each of them, you see. As I started to write I had no plan.
No, that's wrong
My plan was to bring two gay teenagers up to the present day, starting at fourteen and ending at 21, just graduating from university, facing struggles along the way, hardships, separations and never once losing their love for each other. It started set in 1993, the year before the Channel Tunnel opened. I started to write it in January 1999. So the boys are now somewhat older than 14.
Fights they would have, they would be outed at some point, and the dark side, that of child abuse, was very much in my mind. The abuse of a child affects more than that child, especially when that child then tries suicide. That was what I wanted to explore with Billy. I wanted to show how his abuse affected those near him, and how it polarised views for and against him, and by inference for and against gay kids. For some reason we get called paedophiles when, as a young teenager, we are naturally attracted to other young teenagers. That's wrong.
This story is the catalyst that would out Chris and out Nigel. Not sure which one first, but the other was to stand up for him. And amongst that, Mrs Wilding will be in formal trouble because of the down to earth and common sense way she handled the various crises in school. That was what the awful “Section 28” was about, stopping teachers from being able to help kids. Or so far too many people thought. Mrs Wilding is exonerated, but her career is in tatters.
As to the future, no-one dies. Chris goes to a pretty academic university and reads something challenging. Nigel, bless him, is not academic at all. He goes to the Bournemouth University and reads Sports Management. There's a market for leisure centres it seems, and Bournemouth is the best place to study it.
The story wrote itself. The characters spoke and things happened in the dialogue that created the chapters. The only plan was to get out of the mess that each chapter end left one or another boy in. But things happened in my life, too.
The story was created after many years of intolerable stress of being obsessed with a boy I had not seen for decades. The sexual elements were my desires, magnified many times by longing. And the stress got so much I nearly broke under it. Nigel Cropper arrived in my life, or on the periphery of it. He's real enough, but does not exist! I wrote Nigel's story and I wrote it from Chris's perspective. He's wonderful, you see. Perfect imperfection. As I wrote my stresses went away. I also fought to get rid of them.
I broke the obsession and that broke the story. And Nigel was not the boy I was obsessed with. His real name is Nigel Smith, and we were at school together, he a year or two my junior. The boy I was obsessed with has a more unusual name, so his first name of John will just have to do. I broke my obsession for John, and the story started to degrade. I managed several more chapters, but the plot started turning to crap and the words they boys spoke were harder to make real.
I've left the story untouched for three years now, nearly. I deluded myself that I could finish it, but I think it is now open for all time as a continuing love story, unfinished, like life.
They will grow old together. They married just behind Elton John in Windsor! They fell for the place when they went to the midnight Christmas service at St George's Chapel. Today, in October 2006, Nigel is on his way to managing a big health club. Chris is a teacher at their local comprehensive school, not the one they grew up in, they live in Berkshire now. He's a good teacher. The kids know he's gay, so do the staff and parents. Best of all, being gay doesn't matter. He wasn't going to be a teacher, but Mrs Wilding inspired him. It's not a debt to her, not exactly, but he's already heading for headship. He has some things to do, by no means all of which are helping gay kids. He just wants all kids to grow up with more tolerance and belief in diversity.
They live in my heart. To me they are real, and are my friends. I hope they are yours, too.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Thx, Timmy,
I have already read this Epilogue (several times), but things might have changed... You never know.
However, a new story sounds promising, although you plan it as a solid (book) release. I hope it will be available on Amazon or such to order it. Because there is probably no way it could get here to the local bookstores.. sigh
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Amazon seems to pick up all ISBNs and pretends to stock them. Whether it actually does or not will remain to be seen.
I tried very hard to write more, but everything turned to ashes. The dialogue became unreal, the story became forced and much that I truly wanted to cover had to remain uncovered.
The story was a major vehicle in letting me unjam my head over the obsession. Odd, really, that none of the characters are the brat I adored, but the only tale I could write about him did not have a happy ending. But, as the obsession became less irrational and less powerful the need to create a world where I, as Chris and as Nigel, could pretend to be happy, a world that was perfectly imperfect, faded.
So the story, really all the stories, died as my obsession died.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Does it mean, that you have this feeling that your plots have become weak and artificial? Or you simply cannot make up a storyline that would be original and satisfying for you? You wrote that you're already writing a book in the form of a diary. What makes memories better than a made-up story? Do you need to sort your memories out? Or do you hope that such compilation of events day by day would give you new ideas what to write?
Maybe a huge bunch of question. The reason is obvious: Chris and Nigel was the first gay guy story a I have ever read. Technically maybe not the absolute best (but struggling for a top position) but first and GENUINE. When I finished reading it for the first time I had this thought that this (Nigel seducing Chris and all the subsequences) should have happened to me. My life would probably have been more easier, I don't know, maybe. Chris and Nigel was my first, and summing all pros and cons and comparing it to other stories, it stays the best in my mind. That's the reason for those many questions.
Hugs,
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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When I write it is a highly personal activity. I start with an inspiration. That may be a memory, a glimpsed boy (any age, all he has to be is one who makes my head turn, because I can always change his age in a story, and often have). I then place the inspiration in a location. That location is never fake, though it may be sightly altered in geography. I need it to be a real place because I need my characters to live there and to find their way around. And, though you live in another country, another town, I want you to understand the streets, houses, schools, countryside and how it all fits together.
Those are the basics. Along with that the plot is, including Chris and Nigel, formulaic. We know that in all stories I have written except The Walk and The Misfit that the formula is there: "Boy is in pain, doubting himself, his life, and terrified of his sexuality. Boy finds boy. Something happens to wrench boys apart, a small or a large thing. Love triumphs over the wreckage, and they end up together."
This is very much like the Columbo TV shows! He always gets the villain!
So the plot is obvious. The route is mapped, but we have no idea how the story will get them there. I know all of this before I put pencil to paper, fingers to keyboard. And anyone can write this stuff. Before people say that is some sort of conceit, truly anyone can write it. But it seems that writing it well is more difficult.
To write it well the boys must interact. I prefer first person because we only know the thoughts of the boy in pain. That is like our lives. So he and the other boy start to talk. Maybe one trips over and the other laughs, who knows? But boys talk. And this is where, in my case, luck takes over.
My luck is that I can seem to live the conversation in my head and let it flow as it might flow in life. It can flow like a river for ages, or it can leap from pool to pool, but it always moves. Since I know the broad plot, things arrive to populate it, little side issues arrive that give the characters some depth.
But I have not, not for ages, managed to get the river to flow. It's more like a canal - artificial banks, odd route. I have inspiration. Four houses away from me is the most delightful boy, but there is nothing that gives me the glimmer of a dialogue that I can start or work with.
Why?
Because I am not living in my past as much as I once was.
When I was writing flat out I was living as a 15 year old in my head. Today I am truly 56. I have had to fight to become 56. I have had to learn that I am not a teenager, and that I am now a fat middle aged grey haired man. I will not, not ever, have the chance to see the lad up the road, or another lad, walk willingly into my open arms. I'm sure he'd rather poke pins into his eyes than end up naked with 56 year old me. 15 year old fantasy me was a wholly different thing.
So the loss of the obsession and the fight to live in reality has wrecked my teenage gay romantic writing ability. Or, perhaps, if I go back to it that will wreck the work I've done to rid myself of the obsession and to grow up.
A few years back I'd have imagined my young neighbour in my bed. Today I can admire him knowing that he will not be. I still drool, but I no longer imagine.
That is probably a longer answer than you expected
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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A long answer? no. I'd have read it had it been thrice that long...
Yes, you had to grow up. Which meant losing your obsession. Anyhow, don't you sometimes regret that you finally lost it? That you are no teenager for years?
On one hand, yes, I need to grow up; on the other hand I so don't f.... want. I am still capable of dreaming, imagining. Will there be a day when I can't? I hope not...
Thank you, Timmy
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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By losing the obsession I removed the place I hid from pain. I lost the arms I pretended were there for me when I was hurt. I lost a sanctuary that really never existed.
The illusory boy I obsessed over? He lives round the corner from acam in Bristol. He's almost 57, and probably fat and grey haired too. There is much unfinished business there that will never be finished, butthat is the way it has to be.
Do I regret that I am not a teenager? Well, yes. I was sleek, fit, cute, had erections that lasted for years, was lucky with spots, was agile and was very very lonely. And yet I had hope.
As I was losing the obsession I also lost hope. Now I am starting to get it back.
My life has been one of anger. I have spent it ANGRY, without understanding what I was angry at. Now I know and I am taming the anger. I'm also trying to come out, a personal journey, hoping that will also help me. I've not had any bad reactions yet, but there will be some, I'm sure. Some friends I will not come out to because they are not bright enough to cope.
But I wasn't a teenager, not since I turned 20. I was living a lie in my head. And every year, as I grew older, it became increasingly obvious that I was not in the right age group to have the love of a teenage boy, the love I had craved and missed. When I hit 45 or so that was distressing. Everything I had every wanted had been ripped away by age. I realised it around then. And around then the writing started.
I'd tried many times to write about putting sun cream on Nigel Smith's legs since I was a teenager! Suddenly it all came together. I had hurt myself enough to be able to write.
I don't think that has answered any questions, but maybe it's shown you a route forward for yourself? My route through life sucks. Do not take that road.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Timmy, I'm afraid that both roads in front of me suck...
I feel happy about taking neither... But I have to choose. And lose something. There's a lot of pain in my close future, and that pain is not only mine... Shall I cope? I hope so.
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Perhaps talking those things through would help?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Perhaps...
Are you up to it?
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Usually. In private or in public?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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I'd prefer private for this time...
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Then start with the email address in my profile and we'll work from there
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Marek and Timmy,
I've just been invited to a Gaudy - a celebratory dinner - at my old college.
Today I wrote my acceptance and filled in the form including who I would like to sit next to. I put three people down, the first of which was David, the guy I fell in love with in 1955 (the other two are straight). He's still friends, still straight and still beautiful to me. I still would welcome him to my bed.
I seem to have survived better than Timmy and I don't know why, but maybe it was because I was unable to hide my feelings and so more or less all my friends and David's knew that I had a thing for him. It was far more important to me than staying in the closet and although I felt chagrin when I realised how the rest of the college saw me I could bear that.
So, although I didn't 'come out' I didn't suffer in the closet the way some people did. But I would like to know what you, Marek, see as the choice before you.
Love,
Anthony
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Sorry, Anthony,
no certain reply this time. I need to figure it out. Then, perhaps, you will learn about it.
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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We each make choices that suit our times, circumstances and needs. I made mine based on terror of psychiatric intervention, a very real threat, and an attempt at a cure. I was obvious, I know that now, but not obvious enough to be taken and forcibly cured.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I can endorse what Timmy writes in his 11:14 post for it mirrors my own experience. My writings have ground to a halt because I have now gone through the cathartic experience and I can live more contentedly in the present. To write effectively you must have suffered.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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unsui
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Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 19:24] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Ah, but 11:14 is only in OUR time zone. I think everyone will know what you mean, though.
When inspiration hits, let's take advantage of it, otherwise let's enjoy the new group of authors.
Now I wonder if my possible piece of inspiration up the road would prune a tree for me? The problem is starting the conversation. One can no longer offer humbugs to small boys!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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The pissobolity of changed time zones hadn't occurred to me. I trust the post can be traced back through the thread.
The post starts:
>When I write it is a highly personal activity. I start with an inspiration.< …
Hugs
N
[Updated on: Mon, 06 October 2008 21:05]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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It only occurred to me coz I've made the same gentle error myself
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Goto Forum:
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