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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I have just received a message from an author who also posts here. He has sent me a peremptory apparent request, without a rationale, justification or anything else to remove his stories from the site.
The answer is very simple and contained in http://iomfats.org/misc/copyright.html where it says very clearly "items that I and the copyright owner have agreed should be published, which will remain at my sole discretion once initial permisison has been given."
Submission is final unless I choose to remove them. A decent rationale would have got them removed. But he has annoyed me now.
So I want to remind him: This site is for fun. And I maintain it as a hobby. He's actually very lucky that his stories made the cut in the first place. That was a major compliment to his writing, which is, while unspecial, pleasing.
But, like any publisher, once I have been granted the right to publish, the writing stays. Unless I choose myself to remove it for editorial reasons of my own.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Quite reasonable and something I was aware of.
And not dissimilar to many sites I quote from 'Nifty'
"License
Legal stuff: Authors retain rights to and title to their submitted works. By submitting a work, the author grants the Nifty Archive a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, and non-cancellable license to display the work. (If this is unacceptable, please contact us to discuss your concern.)
Authors may license their stories to other publishers, but that does not revoke the license granted to the Nifty Archive. Authors may reclaim the license granted to Nifty by replacing a story with an equivalent story appropriate for display in the Nifty Archive, or by making a contribution to the Nifty Archive of equal value in another form.
The maintainers of the Archive will respect requests for changes to stories, to attribution, and/or to email addresses in the Archive by the original author of the work. Decisions to honor requests to remove a work from public display are determined on a case-by-case basis. This does not nullify, terminate, or revoke any license granted to the Nifty Archive.....etc"
Only what we would expect to be honest.
Paul J.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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People need to understand that this is the equivalent of publishing in a magazine. Ah well. This was a foot stamp I think. I watched the foot stamp and expected the email.
I can't make it much clearer! It's on every site page footer! And normally, when reasons are given, I work with the author to remove stuff. Of course one has to be polite and give reasons 
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Isnt it strange. Someone goes to the trouble of getting their story published and then want it removed. I would assume that there is some kind of monetary reason behind the request.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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No idea, Roger. But "published" is published. On cannot unpublish something.
Where an author in the past has had a genuine reason and has spoken to me about it I have had no issue in working to achieve a solution.
The tone of the note was curt. An order that included "please" > Methinks finance was the last thing on the author's mind.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Ahhh, sounds like he is afraid that some people might find out who he is.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Who can say? He never did. But, if he is, he sure gives a lot of clues!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It sounds like a bunch of sour grapes to me.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The grapes of wrath?
I suspect it has more to do with tinfoil hats than anything else.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No sour grapes.
I don't see what the problem is.
The stories are the intelectual property of the author.
License can be recinded.
It seems to be his choice.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It is not his choice at all once the publication is agreed. He chose to submit and thus agreed to the published conditions of submission.
Still I'm glad I now know you think I am the one suffering from sour grapes, or so I understand from your post. And I thought you were suggesting he was the one suffering. Seems I misread your intention in your post.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If sour grapes were his.... he would have been the one to scream foul first...
But it was you.... Oh well....
You could have just left the work in place without the "oh my, someone doesn't like my website anymore" post and no one would have been the wiser.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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Not sure how to respond here, I fear a 3rd agreement with Marc could unwittingly cause premature heart failure. So I need to understand is this a contractual agreement between to website owner and the author? If so, does the author have the right to disengage from the site with just cause? And to further demand that his work be stricken? I agree that the authors work is his own, but does he relinquish his rights when he agrees to 'publish' on a website?
I am not definitely not trying to start any argument here, I guess I'm a bit confused on the legal point.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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I think it would be easier for everyone to understand if they imagined a website the same as printed material. Once printed and distributed does an author have the right to demand that the books be collected and returned to him? No, he doesn't. If the publishing company wants to print additional copies and sell them they do not have to get the author's permission to do so, they only must pay him his commission for the additional copies.
The agreement between the authors and website as noted by Timmy clearly states that the author does not have the right to resend the agreement. Like much that is done on the internet it is not a signed, physical document; but it is a binding agreement.
As was noted in an earlier post this is a very common agreement for story sites. I have heard from others that it is almost impossible to get stories removed from Nifty.
JimB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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On every page of the site, and at the header of this forum, there is a link to a page that details the conditions for submission of material here.
Put simply, the copyright owner and I agree that an item is published. That agreement is binding and does not allow for withdrawal unless I, as publisher, agree.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Nifty will allow a story to be removed for a reason plus a donation, or that was the case some years ago.
Your general analogy with print media is correct.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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You are quite right JimB. I read on another site that an author who had been offered print publishing had tried to remove the work from Nifty but had been unable to simply becaue the mere submission to 'Nifty' meant acceptance of the folllowing....
"Authors retain rights to and title to their submitted works. By submitting a work, the author grants the Nifty Archive a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, and non-cancellable license to display the work."
Now I have heard that there are two let outs and that is replacing with another work or by some other arrangement which one may believe is a financial 'buy out' But, like a magazine, once out there it stays out there.
So there it is...
[Updated on: Sat, 25 October 2008 08:48] |
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Why is it such a problem to delete this persons work?
The work is not yours.
To remove it is little mote then highlighting and pressing a button a few times at worse and disconnecting a few links at best.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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He knew what he was accepting when he asked me to publish his work. When an offer of publication is accepted the right to publish is granted irrevocably. The author owns the copyright, but grants an irrevocable right to the publisher to publish it. Ownership of the work does not change hands, but a right is passed to the publisher by the author.
When I removed your own stories you made a reasonable and justified request. It took work to do it, and I did it because you had a legitimate concern. You asked with politeness and you were met with a polite response that met your needs.
The work is mounting the stories on the site. I do a very great deal of technical editing to get them into the W3C compliant XHTML. I add them with care, and I announce them with care. The work is in the adding. The work of deletion is relatively small, and also involves adding 301 redirects where the files were to avoid a 404 error. But it is not ever going to happen when someone does it as a foot stamp.
I choose and publish authors that enhance the site. I work on the site as a hobby, not as a job. Things that go onto it stay on it, unless I choose to remove them at my own sole and arbitrary discretion.
I'm not justifying this to anyone, and debating it will change nothing whatsoever. The reason I stated it at all here is because I have no idea whether my email to the author will have been read. It was an announcement, no more and no less.
[Updated on: Sat, 25 October 2008 13:23]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Timmy,
I haven't time to read everything. I don't want to miss anything good.
If something good is about to be removed I'd like to know in time to read it before it goes. And very little in the story shelf is bad.
What would you say if I asked you for a week's warning (perhaps by way of the circular email) that something is to go?
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Well, two things:
1) Nothing is about to go.
2) Even if it did, The Wayback Machine carries the archives anyway. Google caches the pages, too.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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