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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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If as some research suggests the innate biological strengths of women are becoming more valuable to society and the innate biological strengths of men are becoming irrelevant, what role will men play in society in the future?
Think good thoughts,
e
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Well my personal opinion has always remained the same. All men ( Straight men that is ) should be kept on an Island and sold to the highest bidder, with a 7 day money back guarantee. ;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
"And so the lion fell in love with the Lamb"
"What a stupid Lamb"
"What a sick, masochistic lion"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Unfortunately the research is flawed.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Actually, some of the research is quite good, it's the conclusions that may be a bit of a stretch.
Unfortunately, it makes little difference whether the research is flawed or not. Because of the ever widening gender gap in education that currently has women graduating from college at a rate of about 60% to 40% and quickly approaching 2 to 1, it is only a matter of when and not if women will sieze control of the world's economy, politics, and society. So my question still stands, what role will men play in the society of the future.
Think good thoughts,
e
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Aren't you being a bit alarmist, e?
I mean most legislators are men, most judges are men, the police are mostly men and the forces. Most managers and directors are men. Most city workers insurance agents and even still (I think) most doctors and dentists and veterinary surgeons.
And I don't feel threatened either. Do you? You remind me of people back in the 1950s talking about the "Yellow Peril" and how the chinese were going to take over the world.
The only thing women have a monopoly of is childbirth. I don't begrudge them that! I'd rather stick to fertilisation!
Love,
Anthony
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e wrote:
(snip)
> it is only a matter of when and not if women will sieze control of the world's economy, politics, and society. So my question still stands, what role will men play in the society of the future.
I don't see it as a matter of "seize control" in any way! It's never worried me working for a female boss, or in female-dominated environments (as I've done from time to time) ... though I can say that on the whole I've found women bosses to be rather more human and empathic than men bosses (though the most human and empathic boss I've ever had was a man).
I suspect that the biggest change we'll see over the next fifty years (and I do think it will take that long) is a move back away from the culture of "presentism" and work-based socialising that has crept in over the last fifty: in my view a much-needed change!
I would very much like to think that the answer to the question "what role will men play in the society of the future " is that they will play exactly the same role as anyone else! I've worked consistently throughout my adult life to make things a bit more equal - not only to counter discrimination on grounds of gender, sexuality, disability, ethnicity etc, but to try to make such things seen as "just one more thing about a person", adding to and celebrating the diversity of humankind. I don't expect to see it achieved in my lifetime ... but I do believe that any moves backwards will be only local and temporary.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Oh yes, NW. I remember back in the 1970s the managing director of the company I worked in came and took me on one side to ask whether I had any objection to working for a woman!
The thought had just not occurred to me that anyone could be so hidebound.
And I enjoyed my time working for Mary Proctor. Her husband was a camp milliner too. I thought he was probably as gay as me but in those days I was too much of a coward to ask.
The world has changed so much. It looks radically different doesn't it?
But the culture of presentism is still very strong, if as I guess, you mean the pressure on people to be at work to be noticed when anything happens which leads to people working excessive hours.
I think that still goes on a lot.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I'm looking back over my bosses.
Total number of direct bosses: 24
Of which women: 7
Of which total bitches and bad bosses 3
Of the four remaining 2 were excellent.
Of the men most were average. One was poor, and he went on to greatness. I cannot think of an excellent one. I hope those who reported to me think I was good enough. I tried for excellence.
But a woman manager must be far better than a man in order to get the job. It should be preferable to work for a woman, but there was always a risk. One fired me because I had a better house than she did. One fired me because I was obviously better than she was. Woman do jealousy much better than men.
My worst moments have been working for a woman manager. One was so bad I had to take beta blockers in order to get my heart rate under control.
[Updated on: Thu, 15 January 2009 22:41]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I'm not as devoted as you, Timmy to count them. (By the way your arithmetic doesn't add up!) I had a lot more than you.
My problem with my bosses was my arrogance. Usually after a while I thought I could do their job better than they could. The trouble was that sometimes I was right and when they realised it there was trouble.
And of course a couple of times I found myself in a job where I couldn't do it at all never mind my bosses.
And my wife realised what the trouble was before I did and after my third redundancy persuaded me to go freelance. As a consultant I was paid to do as they said and in those circumstances I didn't want to disagree with them.
But I've never had a problem with a female manager or supervisor or chair of governors or anything. All my problems have been with self-satisfied smug incompetent men. My goodness there are a lot of them and one or two are genuinely evil. One day I may tell you about Oliver Taylor.
Love,
Anthony
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Until now I have never heard the word 'presentism' or of the concept. It goes some way to explaining how I was treated at work and in some things I've been involved with since as my method was / is to get on with the job to the best of my ability quietly and without attracting particular attention. I have always been suspicious of whizzkids and bull-shitters.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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acam wrote:
(snip)
> But the culture of presentism is still very strong, if as I guess, you mean the pressure on people to be at work to be noticed when anything happens which leads to people working excessive hours.
>
> I think that still goes on a lot.
Yup, that's pretty much it. Many organisations suffer from it ... and certainly Local Government does, once you get above middle management. I used to regularly get criticised for not being there when incidents happened, even though I of course came back to work whenever needed. But I averaged a 65-70 hour present-at-work-and-actually-working week, paid and contracted for 35 hours, so I think it entirely unreasonable that people expected me to be magically present every time anything went even vaguely off the rails at other times. FFS, it's hardly a crisis if the Flag wasn't flown until lunchtime on the Queen Mother's birthday, or whatever!
But old habits die hard ... curing oneself of this is a struggle!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Well the arithmetic works now  I was surprised how many there were in total. I may have missed a couple. But three bitches from hell is quite enough
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I’ve always had a tendency to examine the worst possible outcomes of any situation while believing that the best outcomes will be achieved. But in this case I don’t see any other alternatives. Women are on the verge of taking control of society. I feel I must mention here that this isn't necessarily a god thing or a bad thing. It has the potential to be either.
This opinion is based on facts and current societal trends. All over the industrialized world women are outperforming men in the educational system and have been for the last decade. The number of new college graduates is approaching 60% women and increasing by almost 1% per year. Little to nothing is being done to counter this trend. Graduate school enrollment is already 60% women and women are the majority in medical schools, law school, and even in business school. They have always dominated public education and are more dominant now than ever. More than 90% of elementary school teachers are women (up from about 75% 30-40 years ago) and about 70% of high school teachers (up from about 60%). They also comprise a majority of principals and school administrators.
While men continue to dominate the workplace in most arenas, women already dominate the major media. There are more women journalists and editors and women author the majority of books currently being published. While men dominate the boardrooms of major corporations, women comprise a major portion of middle management. As the men in control age out of the system, the majority of their replacements will be women. This will hold true in the health care system and legal systems as well. Can the political arena be far behind? Despite the fact that men are the majority of the population, women are the majority of the voters.
On the positive side, men continue to dominate math, science, and engineering professions. Men are entering technical schools and receive vocational training, but technical careers do not pay nearly as well as most careers for college graduates. Men may become dependant on women to be the primary wage earners in their families and those men who do not partner with women may have a difficult time earning enough money to support themselves.
I don't want to be an alarmist and I certainly don't want to be compared to those who use fear and scare tactics to advance a political agenda. There was very little factual basis for the 'yellow peril' threat. It was a scare tactic and nothing more. I think there is far more basis in fact for my hypothesis. Regardless, I am posing a hyothetical question in a subject area that interests me and was hoping to inspire some lively discussion and perhaps gain some insight into people's thoughts on the matter.
Think good thoughts,
e
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I have probably worked for more female supervisors than male over my lifetime and can say that there really isn't much difference in terms of quality or relationships. I've been treated well by both and I've been abused by both. The best supervisor I ever had was male, the worst supervisor I ever had was male.
My current work situation is the most unique in that I am the ONLY male employee at this particualr facility and ALL of my clientele is female. The only contact I have with other males all day long is with the occasional delivery driver and service technician. I am the kitchen manager/chef at a women's drug treatment center.
I am frequently told that I am being held to a higher standard because I am male and therefore must set an example for our clientele to look up to. My every move is highly scrutinized and frequently criticized. I have never been invited to socialize with any of my co-workers outside of the facility and rarely within. I am around more people more of the time than on any job I've ever worked, but I feel more alone and isolated than at any other time in my life. There are days when I can't stand my job and days when I thouroughly enjoy it, but mostly I'm rather indifferent. I think I'm happiest when I can manage to be alone in the kitchen which is something I can manage for brief periods most days.
Think good thoughts,
e
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Wow. I can see where you get the inspiration for your story!
You are, of course, a victim of subtle(!) sexual discrimination, but proving that to an employment tribunal, for example, would be very hard indeed.
See if you can construct a case for sexual harassment and take them to the cleaners!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Yes, NW, it sounds worse than it ever was when I was a line manager.
But when I went back to being a consultant one of the nice things was that I was sometimes paid by the hour!
Then I got a freelance job where I estimated the time to write a program and if the estimate was accepted I could do it at home if I liked. Of course I took the risk that it might take longer than the estimate.
It surprises me how few people are willing to work on such terms even today.
There are very few professionals in the computer business.
Love,
Anthony
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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There's no point in any legal type action. There's nothing 'sexual' that's happened so there's no sexual harassment. Discrimination perhaps, but proving it would be nearly impossible. The best thing will be to just leave. I've been looking, but the economy is such that decent jobs are hard to find.
As for the story, I've completed the outline and I think I have a story worth writing. I've even written most of another chapter so that's three out of ten.
Think good thoughts,
e
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e wrote:
(snip)
> I am frequently told that I am being held to a higher standard because I am male and therefore must set an example for our clientele to look up to.
In nearly every job I've had since 1982, I've been the first "out" gay man the company has ever employed, so I can kinda relate to this. When one is in a minority of one, I think it's inevitable. It can certainly put a lot of pressure on - especially knowing that some people will judge all members of the "minority" one happens to be a part of by one's own performance! But I don't think it's significantly different being the first/only man, or woman, or ethnic Chinese, or out gay man, or visibly-disabled, or whatever. And it is - in many ways - an opportunity to break down prejudice.
But there's no doubt it can be lonely, and a good out-of-work support network helps!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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Been awhile since I have posted anything here, hope ya'll had a good holiday. Now as far as the question of Female boss's I have had 5. 3 were our directors and 2 of them were just fine, very professional, the 3rd was a vindictive b_tch who fired me after 20 years to save her budget. The other two aforementioned were supervisors, one was great the other was a power hungry political climber. I challenged her and won, she never spoke to me again and soon left.
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I've had two female bosses. One was fine, strong minded, knew what she wanted, but used me and other males as props, but in such a way that we did things willingly. The other had made it in what was basically a man's world and had to prove all the time (probably more to herself) that she was the boss and so she kept interfering instead of letting us just get on with a job we were perfectly capable of doing.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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