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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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One thing we never seem to cover is dating.
I don't see any difference between dating whether we are gay or straight. I see it as having a dummy run to see if you might be compatible for the long haul. And I see that it may need many dummy runs before you get it "right".
The only difference I see is that it is harder, in a field of potential partners, to identify those who might be gay, let alone those who might be compatible, from the straight boys.
I have pretty much never dated. Seriously. I may have been married for almost 30 years, but we met, stars burst in the sky, and that was it. Before that I fucked, and only with girls. That involved very little subtlety. Or I was alone and lonely. This means I can't advise, really.
It's just that I have a young friend who is gay and who could do with pointers, not only on where and how to find gay young men who do not just want a quickie in the gent's toilet out the back of the bar. Or, rather, wants to meet those who do not want one at all. He hopes very much to meet and date gay young men who are like he is: gentle, sweet, kind, romantic and wanting a lifetime of love.
I have no knowledge of any of this. I need all of us to help. I know he wants sex, but he wants a potential relationship more, and probably first. An emotionless quickie is not for him. He's a lovely chap and is a great catch. He's brave as a lion and also somewhat self effacing.
Please help me to help him. He is in England and lives reasonably near me.
[Updated on: Wed, 18 February 2009 09:14]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Timmy, I wonder if I could change the emphasis and offer an oblique reply to your post.
As I see it the problem is not one of dating. It is of learning. We all need to learn how to love other people and we all make mistakes. When I was young I made more mistakes than most people because the sort of love I wanted was illegal and there was no way to consult anyone about it. Most of the people I had sex with would have said that they weren't homosexual.
And to learn how to love you need to learn how to make love and how to have loving sex. And there isn't a *right* way to do that. And to accept the religious point of view that sex before marriage is bad is very likely to land you in an unsuitable marriage. And so is it's homosexual equivalent which is to find everyone you know not good enough because one is waiting for the perfect partner and then you find someone you think is perfect and they aren't or you choose wrong and what they want in bed is abhorrent to you..
Like all the young women saving themselves for the perfect man who regret their choice a few years later. People need to be told that loving is something that takes practice and you don't really want to learn on your life partner - you risk spoiling things with your mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes.
We encouraged our daughters to experiment and allowed them to bring boyfriends home for the night at age 16 and provided condoms! And the experiments relieved them from the sexual desert between puberty and marriage, but they made mistakes (and didn't get pregnant!).
It is very unusual for one's first partner to be ideal, however carefully you choose. The reason is that no-one can tell how a potential partner will make love from the cut of their jib on the rugger field or in the cafe! But unless you are a cold fish that is one of the most important things.
How do you think someone of discernment and self restraint can be encouraged to experiment? To experiment joyfully and not worry whether the experiment is with a potential life partner? You have to enjoy the experiment!
And forgive oneself for the mistakes. But above all do go out and make some!
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Good re-routing. I think both are valid.
We want to be well treated and treat a potential partner well.
We also are interested in matters sexual.
It is unusual to have a romantic relationship without sex, but it is perfectly normal to have sex without a relationship.
So where does the questing young man go in order to find a potential partner with whom he is happy to share both time and his body? How does he find that social group, that niche?
It requires endeavour, that is certain. Waiting until one blows past in the breeze is unlikely to lead to everlasting happiness.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Well I wondered and it prompted me to ask a couple of the younger people that I know well. One nineteen and one twenty-three. They both came up with a mix of modern technology and then face to face follow ups.
It would appear that networking sites such as Face Book and others give a platform to express their personalities and attract interested parties. Many such contatcs prove to be shallow but every now and then they find the 'friend' how long it lasts or how satisfactory... well how long is a piece of string. But the young guys assure me that simply going to a gay club is not where its at these days.
So from the view of two youngsters I pass it on for what its worth. One lives in London the other in the South Midlands.
Paul
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I'm no expert on this matter but here are some ideas. When i started, social network sites worked for me. I did understand all the risks. You just have to be smart in filtering out the potential predators. Like never meet anybody alone, go to their place, etc. Wrong wrong wrong. Through this method, it becomes easy to figure out: 1) Who is gay, and 2) where people hang out. Usually people will invite you to parties, go out for dinner, dance maybe. I remember i found out about the gay and lesbian center, a gay friendly library (nice place), places to hang out and meet people.
Time passed and i moved to another city. Didn't know anybody. I used the social networking sites and met new people. They invited me to clubs, gay friendly friends around town. Eventually found out about youth center where they had weekly meetings. It was then when i met my current partner. We been together almost three years now.
As to what Anthony mentioned. I completely agree with him. i did experiment, made my mistakes, fooled around, etc. Always doing my best to be safe. Some experiences where lousy, others were great and could have gone somewhere but at the time did not try. now i'm comfortable with who i am.
I hope my suggestions help. By no means they are the only ones. The point is to try to find places to go and meet people. Places other than a bar. Spending all day in the computer is not healthy either. Try to find people to socialize with is what is all about. The rest will take care of itself.
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
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That news is good, Paul.
I've never been 'on the scene' but from what I read about it I'm glad and I would certainly fear for a young friend who chose that way of blossoming out.
Love,
Anthony
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I certainly have been 'on the scene'. For eighteen years I lived in a big northern city with a huge and vibrant gay scene in its city centre.
Many of those I knew locally frequented the scene in one form or another and I personally went out at least once a week ( far to little for a proper scene queen believe me) . For friends visiting from outside who had never experienced a big city gay scene before I guess I almost did guided nights out tours finishing at an all night breakfast bar at around 4 am... then off to work!! Those were the days!!
It was in that city that I started to befrend some homeless youngsters attracted from the outlying towns and villages to the big city lights ... you know the story... except they are not that bright when you get there. "Queer as Folk" ( Brit version) was right in that respect. (and was filmed there).
I enjoyed for the most part my nights out. I enjoyed dance floors at that time. I was not especially 'looking' back then ... I certainly had some fun tho... so it was not all gloomy.
Paul
I would not reccommend for ones life partner search to happen there though.
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Yes, Paul, I think I might have loved it - but as you say it would not be the place to look for a life partner.
Unfortunately I was never able to let go and abandon myself to hedonism.
I was always concerned about my own self-esteem and how I would be judged (not by god, whom I've never believed in, but by someone who knew what I did - even if it was only me).
Trying to be GOOD is a pain in the arse. My problem was that I was always a good boy!
Still am!
Love,
Anthony
[Updated on: Fri, 20 February 2009 20:57] |
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