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That professionals are still trying it on in the 21st century is most worrying.
By the way, did anyone notice the "news" headline to the right of the main article on the page? - "Balls and Bottoms give way to Wangs"
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Yes, Paul, that news was in the Guardian this morning.
Isn't the real problem that young people, discovering they have homosexual feelings, are frightened by them and wish they didn't have them and were 'normal'.
I'm sure I did and have diaries and letters that show I did (in fact, till I found them, I would probably have denied it as it is so long since I accepted what I am that I had forgotten how fraught I found life then).
What is needed is for society to accept that homosexuality is normal like so many characteristics - red hair, green eyes, left handedness, blood group ab and so on - that occur in a smallish proportion of the population.
And when (if?) it is accepted as normal then people may find it easier to accept how they feel, whatever the feeling, without regret. I don't think many people, on discovering they are homosexual for the first time would welcome it. It isn't an advantage, is it? Left-handedness used similarly to be unacceptable. Now is is a matter of small remark.
I wish that the world didn't accept these charlatans that offer to 'cure' homosexuality more maybe than other scams because it touches me but there are so many scams of one sort or another that I usually give up.
The Guardian has a 'Bad science' column - but it also hosts an astrologer! Lots of people go to church - as I was complaining yesterday only two out of eighty at my gaudy skipped chapel. People believe all sorts of impossible and ridiculous things. I think I would like people to be more rational. I wonder what the world would be like if they were.
And I have three friends who are trans sexual and I don't think I understand how they feel at all.
Love,
Anthony
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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About your diaries and wishes. Down deep inside and in a totally objective manner, don't we all wish that we were normal? Who would opt for an orientation that condemned them to a persecuted group? Don't get me wrong. I love me and I love my sexuality, but emotions aside, it would be a whole lot easier if I were straight or even bisexual.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13797
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Some years ago I visited a physcologist to discuss, among other things, sexuality. José von Bühler, now retired, was then acknowledged as one of the foremost psychologists specialising in sexual issues in the country. And the discussions with him were challenging.
To be fair I had been dragooned into seeing someone so I went in a spirit of distrust. And I did not trust him at all for the first several sessions. But I grew to respect him, though I can say that it was never a cosy relationship.
He was clear. Sexual orientation is natural, but with unknown causes for variations. Some are learned responses, like only being able to have sex when the smell of newly cut grass is present, some, like same sex attraction, are products of far more complex roots.
He saw his role as assisting people to become comfortable with that which was unchangeable, and changing that which they wished to change if that were possible.
New mown grass could be changed, he thought. It would always produce better sex when present, but could be made to be inessential. I do not suffer from "grass impotence".
If it was desirable for me, for example, to find women attractive he could assist with that, but could not remove same sex attraction. I chose not to be so assisted.
He did help me become determined to raise my sights about mid teens. He was able to suggest simple strategies (increasingly older masturbation fodder, really), but was clear that I had to decide to do this myself, and was unlikely to lose the deeper seated attraction. I simply had a duty not to act upon it.
They were interesting sessions, not comfortable ones. Surprisingly he was once a monk, I think a Benedictine, but can't really remember, and hailed from the Canary Islands, hence his Germano-Spanish name.
[Updated on: Thu, 26 March 2009 17:57]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13797
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I grew up scared of being different, and abnormal. It has taken me many years to recognise that I am one of the many facets of normality, simply a minority normality.
I would prefer not to ever have been homosexual, but I have no desire to change that today.
I would not wish to have had my genetic makeup fiddled with to remove homosexuality, nor to have been aborted because of it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Isn’t it interesting the variety of experiences, and freighting, I think there are things we need to say over and over again. “Normal” for the most part really is just a setting on the washing machine, and I fear a term mostly used to engender a state of feeling of “guilt shame and blame.”
I am glad to say that despite all they did to try and engender that state of mind in me they failed. Don’t get me wrong, It was a challenge even from the stand point of a tinny bopper well entrenched in the ideology of that period of freedom of thought. Again I have to say I must have been very luck in so many way all things being considered I think I am still pretty lucky LOL here I am stuck between “christians” who tell me I’m an abomination for my sexuality and on the other by “atheist” bent in their own dogma to tell me I am irrational because of my spirituality…..
Oh my what is one to do in this modern age!
 ::-)
Thank goodness I'm not susceptible to anything but the revelation I get from my own journey. I do so like who I am becoming.
Just a word in the shell like ears of the younger readers. Don't spend time bogged down in any one else’s "gilt blame or shame trip" it's a big waste of time from what ever quarter it may come from. It will only limit your range of view! Do no harm is one of my pivotal mantras, to other or ones self!
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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>One anonymous professional who took part in the study said they would help a patient if they held a religious belief that forbade homosexuality. Another said: "The individuals I have worked with have all been very unhappy about their sexuality and wish they were heterosexual."
If adults wish to put themselves through such treatment, that's all well and good. The frightening part is that there are misguided, bigoted parents who would put their adolescent children through such treatment. And they do it under the guise of religious freedom. And there are many so called "therapists" to whom they can turn to.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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Macky wrote:
(snip)
> Down deep inside and in a totally objective manner, don't we all wish that we were normal? Who would opt for an orientation that condemned them to a persecuted group?
I've never thought that my being gay was anything other than normal. There might have been a couple of years in my late teens when I kinda hoped that it was a phase that would pass, but I didn't feel abnormal when it didn't ... I just wished that this entirely rational view was more widely shared.
And yes, I would opt to be gay, given the choice. Sure, I've had my share of lumps and bumps, abuse and queer-bashings along the way. But - unpleasant though those were - they've very much shaped my moral, ethical and philosophical universe (if that doesn't sound too pretentious). I am a better person for having lived as a gay man than I would have been if I'd had the same temperament but been straight.
But, even as a teen, I would not have been interested in a magic pill to make me straight ... because I knew then (and know now) that I couldn't be the me that I was (and am) if I wasn't attracted to guys.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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“The guise of religious freedom” is tyranny plain and simple; I find it has little to do with human spirituality IMHO. But then that’s a horse of a different color these days, I think we are supplanting our humanity with humanism!
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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Hi Nw,
I feel like you do. But what I meant by 'objectively' is to sorta look back before birth and pretend you can choose your orientation. In such a scenario I can't imagine anyone would want to be born a gay person.
I would prefer my son turn out straight, because his life would be easier. But if he is gay, I'd not want him to be any other way.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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