I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
An old proverb says, "A boy is a cross between a god and a goat." Not that I have ever heard of this proverb, but it has a great deal of value as the video shows.
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
They certainly are fun to watch. I grew up on a farm, and it brings to mind letting a calf out to pasture for it's first year. The calf will kick up its heels and dance about in pure enjoyment of the outdoors.
I am somewhat troubled by this clip though. Do you think that this sequence might have been orchestrated by an adult and not depict the natural state of boys at play? I couldn't help but notice that they shed clothes as they played.
It just doesn't seem natural to me that boys would do this when there were brush burns to be had in a serious spill.
My concern is that these boys will recognize themselves or be recognized sometime in the future and regret taking part in this scene. I mean its not pornographic or anything, but were the boys influenced to do something that they might regret in the future? I just hope that none of the lads feels self-conscious about this sequence in the future. I just worry that a clip like this might be made by someone taking advantage of the boys' youth and suggestability, to lead them to do something that they would not have done without the guidance.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
They are certainly not doing anything wrong. They are delightful. If a group of boys decided to strip down to their boxers and briefs and ride bikes, that's just fine. But I think that the boys should care if they are being filmed doing it, and have the film distributed worldwide for forever. Because they never will know the contexts in which their images might be presented. I am just concerned that the boys are being exploited by someone to serve their own purposes. I say exploited because they might not realize how public their antics could become. Do you think that there is any basis here for me to have that concern? Am I just being a prude?
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Location: Worcester, England
Registered: January 2005
Messages: 1561
Macky wrote:
> ... I am just concerned that the boys are being exploited by someone to serve their own purposes. I say exploited because they might not realize how public their antics could become. Do you think that there is any basis here for me to have that concern? Am I just being a prude?
Well, a quick websearch suggests that it's an extract from "God or Goat" by Azov films, who certainly have a reputation for producing naturist films of pubescent boys. I'm inclined to think that there's more than just filming some natural fun going on here.First they head back to that familiar farm land for some daring jumps and tricks on their bikes then they head off to a sauna for some more fun. as the Azov website puts it.
I don't think I'll be buying a copy.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
There is a world of difference between naturists and porn. I imagine the kids being below 18 the sauna part would be unlawful in the UK, but, and here is the thing, what if they;re just messing about like kids do in showers, with nothing sexual at all?
I just saw what was on Youtube, simple innocent fun. Boys actually being "gods and goats"
But we are looking at a different economy. It's a professional film and the kids will have been paid to be in it. At that age I was paid to be in a catalogue. I can't remember how many clothes I had on, but it was a boat scene and I thing swimming trunks were the order of the day.
Their bike scene was far more dangerous than my catalogue appearance, but I think I got £10, a substantial sum of money in those day!
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
It's a very difficult moral question. I have enjoyed looking at cute pictures of boys on the internet. But I get concerned about the morality of it. What if my clicks are rewarding to somebody who is exploiting kids? Maybe a parent will put up some vacation pictures of his kids having fun so that grandma can tune in, but someone copies the pictures to their blog or something. Naturists are not perverts...would it be immoral for them to put up pictures of their kids at the naturist retreat? I don't know if it's moral to put pictures of kids on the internet really, when they can be copied and end up on any kind of site. I don't know if it's moral for a blogger to copy the pictures to his blog. A good looking kid could be out for a swim, and someone can clandestinely snap a picture and put it on his blog. Is that moral? How might the kid feel about that? What's more, pictures can be photoshopped to look like the subjects are doing things that they really aren't doing (Like is this really in a scene from Harry Potter? http://hdslash.saranya.net/). Then there are all of the images from the past that now can be digitized. Timmy's picture from his modeling stint could be on some scandalous site on the internet. It might be photoshopped to show him in an unflattering situation; anyone's image could be. There is no controlling what gets put up. The only thing that each of us can do is to try to keep our clicks from rewarding people who take advantage of youthful indiscretion. I used to enjoy a blog. The pictures of kids having fun sorta made it possible for me to feel like a kid vicariously. Then I started considering all this. I haven't visited the blog in months. I can't enjoy it when I can't tell if looking at it is abetting exploitation and causing a kid hurt. How do you decide that?
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
I put this up because it caught my imagination.
I now envisage some trashy talk show in 10 years "I rode my bike as a teen and it was on video. I feel abused and damaged by it."
Jeez. I put it there to show the wonderful thing about just being a boy, about not caring, about having fun.
What happened to enjoying innocence? Ah yes. By protecting it we killed it off. And this started in the good old USA where the citizenry is so ashamed of the human form that it is taboo to be naked, even as a kid in front of your parents. But these kids are decently attired, and riding bikes.
I don't care what they may or may not do in other excerpts from this film.
What happens if I put a picture or a video up of a little kid on a swing? Were THEY coerced too?
What about this film, on mainstream release in Denmark?
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
Your link is of a drawing. It's called art.
"Clandestinely snap a picture"?
That is what is wrong with society. We used to take photos all the damned time on the beach. Now mealy mouthed do gooders have decided that it is immoral.
You can't stop to help a crying kid without being accused of wanting to rape it.
Instead of looking for hidden hurt in things, try simply enjoying them. There is no Original Sin here. No penance needs to be served for liking something.
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
"Instead of looking for hidden hurt in things, try simply enjoying them. There is no Original Sin here. No penance needs to be served for liking something."
Well, yes, Catholics are taught to feel guilty about everything from a very early age. I do guilt real good. And true, our society has made kids paranoid. One day, at my sister in law's request, I went to school to pick up my nieces and they would not come with me because of some recent cautionary lesson. The worst part of this "hands off" sentiment towards children is that an adult can no longer feel free to reproach a child acting badly in public.
Watching innocence at play is one of the greatest pleasures an adult can have. Kittens, children and puppies are a delight. But sometimes that innocence seems contrived and unreal, or staged for a profit. The fact that the children were not wearing helmets and that they were shedding clothes as they played made the goats clip seem "contrived for profit" to me. I could be totally wrong...maybe the kids just got hot or silly or something. Hopefully none of them will suffer any anguish at the public viewing of their antics. But what if one did?
I certainly can not find fault with anything shown in the goats film or the other one below. However, maybe someone else sees it differently. Please do not feel that I am putting you down for posting the piece. My worry is that there are people around who offer kids bribes to do things that the child might later wish that he had never done. I do not want to support that kind of activity with my clicks. I love to watch little boys being themselves and having fun. You can see several pictures on a blog that are as beautiful as they are innocent, but then on the same blog, you will see one that looks questionable. So, I can't in good conscience "forget about hidden hurts". That would be irresponsible, wouldn't it?
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Location: USA
Registered: September 2003
Messages: 327
uuumm actually, i had the same feelings when i first saw this video. there are many other ways a kid can be shown having fun other than striping down to their underware. maybe it is a western idea? Do Europeans view nudity more natural?
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 430
I do agree with you, Mackey. I now must be aware of how the Internet works, for good and for other. My wife never wants her picture of her or of our daughter on the net. I do have a picture on the web somewhere I'm sure. Yes, it was a pleasure watching the boys have there fun. If they were getting paid, then it was their responsibility to play the role of having fun. So, it would be up to the individual to watch or not to watch.
Location: USA
Registered: September 2003
Messages: 327
In my opinion, it does matter what happens in other parts of the movie. There are many other tactful ways you can capture the innocence of child, even if they are nude. nothing wrong with nudity, right?
If i didn't see what they did before or after, then it is not wrong...in my opinion, is just not acceptable.
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
A friend has just emailed this to me:
> "By the way, I have a young Ukrainian student staying with me and I asked him to translate the boys' speech, which included the boy cameraman by the way, and he told me that there was absolutely no hint of anything sexual at all in the chatting banter between them as I had suspected. Merely they were egging each other on with the bike races and later the gymnastics etc."
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869
... I must say I, frankly, can't see what all the fuss is about.
Firstly, like I'm sure a host of others here, I gave this thread a miss the first-time around, and now having had its' content rather rudely drawn to my attention, I wholly understand why I passed on it originally.
Secondly, my thoughts about the vidéo itself are largely that I didn't see any point to it - not that it was sexually motivated or driven by financial considerations or a catalogue of other sins that may very well be hidden under some bush somewhere - simply that I don't see, and didn't see that first time either, any point at all to it. Period. Consequently I moved on, just as I should probably have this time too.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
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