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Something maybe a little less grounded to think about, some may find interesting and some offensive. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDoTEH7wC9E
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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Dear arich, I just don't understand how anyone with any understanding of what words mean can listen to more than a sentence or to of that taradiddle without realising that it is so incoherent as to be more or less meaningless.
Indeed it might have been written by Teilhard de Chardin.
[I don't know anything I could say more insulting than that!]
Why did you post it?
Love,
Anthony
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“Why did you post it?”
Anthony why do you even ask? You read only a sentence and instantly you think you know all that is being said.
Don’t worry I understand, you think you know everything about every thing. But look, just because you try to insult anyone who expresses anything outside of your belief system isn’t going to stop me from posting those things I find interesting. I am not going to let a 75 year old man in spandex that thinks just because he is wise because he is 75 and looks good in spandex rule my thought life.
Sorry I’m not buying what you’re selling either!
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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I don't know. I sorta liked the creative ways in which the videos tried to reconcile science and religion, as well as to reconcile the various religions mentioned. I do however, hold all this at arms length because it all smacks of an emergent dogma; another emerging organized religion. I think the whole thing should be taken as another allegory to explain everything, just like all the other religions. I really can not swallow unsubstantiated dogma hook line and sinker any more. But the concepts were beautiful..like art...a thinking picture if you will. Some things mentioned, like the "big crunch", are not favored by current scientific thought (ever expanding universe is big now). For me, the videos restated truths espoused by most religions, but did so in a new age idiom. I think it is better for people to consider this kind of stuff than to ignore it. I was quite surprised that "quantum entanglement" was not mentioned in the discussion of the oneness of everything. Anyway, it was cool thought.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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Never set anything in stone, everything is food for thought what we make of it is up to each one of us. Again i say it is all a very personal subjective journey and very little we know is Immutable.
[Updated on: Fri, 02 October 2009 19:11]
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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Arich, I am so sorry that you descended into personal abuse as a defence of your argument. It was rude to Anthony and embarrassing for the rest of us.
Hugs
Nigel
[Updated on: Fri, 02 October 2009 20:58]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I'm not sure that either boy comes out of this entirely well. So please can they both rebuild bridges?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear arich,
I was being quite straight with you. I don't understand why you posted it and would like to know.
Love,
Anthony
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Arich wrote:
Never set anything in stone, everything is food for thought what we make of it is up to each one of us. Again i say it is all a very personal subjective journey and very little we know is Immutable.
I agree not to set things in stone. Knowledge improves and what turns out to be false has to be discarded. But there is a lot about that ought not to be food for thought. For example: astrology, fortune telling, superstition and, in my view, all religion.
But I'm not sure about 'it is a subjective journey' because although no-one else can be aware of the contents of my head except by my telling them, there is a difference between truth and falsehood and that is not subjective.
And immutable just means unchangeable and so 'don't set it in stone'. Do you intend it to mean more than that, Arich? All I am concerned to establish is that there are many things we can know which are not subjective and can be shared by many people and form the sum of human knowledge - objective knowledge if you like.
Love,
Anthony
[Updated on: Sat, 03 October 2009 08:33] |
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"Why did I post it"
Anthony, I was being just as straight forward with you, Why do you even ask when you haven’t even listened to a small part of what was being said.
Nevertheless I'll answer you anyway. I thought it was interesting, but I also added the caveat that it that was not for everyone and that some, (keeping you in mind) might find it offensiv. I know you are an atheist you have said so in many ways many times, but unlike you I am not here to try to talk anyone in to anything,andI,unlike you am a spiritual person and like to think of and discuses things of a spiritual nature. You like to condescend or bury anything of a spiritual nature; this is not an insult or judgment but an observation as everything else I've said. But again I say I will not be dismissed or condescended by anyone just because they do not have interest in the same things I have interest in.
Really I do love you Anthony, but I have to admit my tolerance is stretched a bit thin when I am meet to often with condescension!
Rick :-*
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Ok, that's the explanations out of the way. We're still not acquitting ourselves well here, though. So perhaps we could move on to amelioration, followed by something far nicer than an armed truce?
This is not pointedly to either of you. I just think we're still scoring points when there are no points to score.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Anthony wrote:
“For example: astrology, fortune telling, superstition and, in my view, all religion.”
I have never said that I believe in any of these things Anthony. There are so many things even in science that we find are not immutable that once were thought to be.
Believe what you will, but do not try to censor what other want to think and discuses just because you do not agree. Even what you believe is subjective.
Rick
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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Anthony, what exactly do you fear about religion? I use the word 'fear' advisedly. Disbelief in a a supreme being (for want of a better term) is negative, and so I would have thought a neutral stance would be best as it is difficult to fight against what is not there. I wonder whether you were harmed by religion at some stage in your life in order for you to be so vehement.
Organised religion on the other hand - I can see that there is a lot to fear there. I for one fear the power of Islam. I understand the fearsome power of the Catholic church, particularly in the middle ages and the renaissance, and then today in Ireland. But this fear is not caused by the godhead, but by the self-interested humans who claim to act in his name.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Dear Nigel,
I don't think I've been directly harmed much by religion or organised religion. I'm sorry if I come across as unduly vehement about it.
But it's odd that I think about being an atheist in a very similar way to how I think about being gay. It is now possible to admit it without too severe a penalty.
Time was when no respectable person could admit to unbelief, when no-one could teach at a university who did not subscribe to the 39 articles and many sorts of lives would be closed off to me.
I think that in some societies to fail to attend Friday prayers is certain to make one an outcast. 'Infidel' is not quite the choice word of disapproval in infant playgrounds like 'gay' but in places where it is a term of abuse the consequences of being one are pretty serious.
I suppose, like Peter Medawar, 'I saw the dark at an early age' and I suppose I want all right-thinking men to think as I do.
But I agree that religious arguments are futile and I shouldn't get into them. I should reply as Samuel Butler did [I think it was he!] when asked to tell his religion:
"Why sir, I am of the religion of all wise men."
"And, pray, what religion is that?"
"Wise men never say."
Love,
Anthony
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Nor, arich, have I ever suggested you do believe in such things.
And, really, I was not trying to censor anything. I am one of the first to suffer when freedom of speech is denied.
And I wasn't trying to rile you either. I'm sorry what I said seemed offensive to you. But if I'm not careful I'll do it again in trying to explain myself. So perhaps I'll leave it at that.
Love,
Anthony
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I suppose, arich, that what I ought to have said is that I do not understand.
And when I make a serious effort to understand something and still I can't, I get cross with myself and with the stuff which is being so impenetrable.
Peter Medawar ended his review of "The phenomenon of man" with a paragraph beginning: "I have read and studied The Phenomenon of Man with real distress, even with despair."
Here is a link to the complete review:
http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Medawar/phenomenon-of-man.html
Love,
Anthony
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At best I can only see a very small part of the whole of what there is to know. But I am not going to limit the journey, I want it to be as broad and interesting as it can be, some of it will make me laugh some just smile or maybe cry or be hurt or angry. I will be come a fool not forgoing discernment if it is what I need to be to obtain a small part of the wisdom of the joy of living.
I have found this to be truth in my own life, I did not cry out to the rocks when I sat on deaths doorstep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_QKl03Lk4Y&feature=channel_page
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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] 
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