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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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We've talked about gay couples having kids on here before, and the various possibilities for them. Heard about this from the paper. It's a gay friendly surrogacy program in Inja.
http://www.iwannagetpregnant.com/
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Well, we can have opinions, I suppose. But have any of us so desperately wanted, needed a child that our opinion has actual importance? Or is it like a navel, a thing which everyone has but has lost its usefulness?
I am going to Israel in November. I hope to have the honour to meet Yonatan, one of the gentleman in the video who, with his life partner, has used this programme and who have a child, much loved and much wanted.
Are we talking about some sort of moral issue here? If so I can't see it. Do people have to adopt babies that have none of their genetic material at all in them in order to satisfy society and its bizarre sanctions against LGBT folk? I think not. Look at the fuss over Madonna and her buying of an African kid!
And "Inja"? No. I think not.
[Updated on: Sat, 10 October 2009 09:01]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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My wife and I were absolutely desperate for a child. We were infertile. We received treatment eventually for infertility after years of poking and prodding and one investigation after another. Becoming pregnant became an all consuming passion. It ruled such sex life as it allowed, requiring mating at the change in temperature recorded by thermometer readings each morning.
Trust me, this was not a "morning quickie", this was mating on command prior to leaving for the office. This is about determination, not romance.
Eventually we were lucky and my semen was refined in hospital and placed directly in her uterus. This was Ok for me. I simply had to get up early, drive us both to central London, have a wank in a broom cupboard, and leave. She had to lie on her back with her legs in stirrups and be hurt when it was placed there.
The first time we conceived first time.
After our son was born we wanted more kids. Lots more. So we tried again. And, after 24 months of this awfulness had gone by our sex life was in tatters and we failed to get pregnant.
We chose not to consider adoption or surrogacy.
But if we had chosen either then the obstacles placed in front of us, though large, would have been far smaller than for a gay couple.
So, do we, as man and woman, have fewer human rights than man and man or woman and woman?
No, we do not.
Any discussion here is about surrogacy as a whole, not about LGBT and surrogacy.
If surrogacy is right, and I believe that it is, then it is right for all. It is right, too, for single people.
The only consideration is whether the child is being had for some sort of reason other than an overwhelming need for and love for that child.
[Updated on: Sat, 10 October 2009 09:12]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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It would be so neat to talk to the guys and see what the experience is like. So much is being done that might allow gay couples to have kids though. There has been talk of modifying stem cells into sperm and egg for years now. That would allow 2 men or 2 women to combine their genetics to make a child.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090127090732.htm
I just read something more on this subject a month or two ago, but can't find the article. But I know that the research in this keeps moving ahead.
As to the morality issue; yeah I was playing my cards close to my chest in the first post. I've caused a commotion on here too many times by being upfront and frank about my opinions.
But I feel that surrogacy can be OK. One caveat that I would have is for the welfare of the surrogate. I think that carrying a child might cause a load of chemical reactions and perhaps even a type of 'imprinting' in a woman that makes giving up the child somewhat traumatic. No hard research has ever been done on this. I think that it should be.
Also, surrogacy is only available to the rich. Even in India it runs 35K according to the article in the paper. It would be nice if insurance helped cover the costs. More than a few countries are giving incentives to have children. What better incentive could their be than financial support for surrogacy conception within a national health system.
Thank you for sharing the story of conceiving your child. It's a bit weird when science has to infringe upon love to conceive. We did a bit of at-home science in the conception of our child too, because although we would have been happy with either, we preferred a boy. What's your take on the morality of that?
Finally Inja. Sorry; couldn't help it. May I blame Walt Disney's Jungle Book? Remember the elephant commander and his troops? Due to an unfortunate encounter with this film early in my life, Inja is forever imprinted upon my mind.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Macky wrote:
> ...We did a bit of at-home science in the conception of our child too, because although we would have been happy with either, we preferred a boy. What's your take on the morality of that?
People have been doing that for years. What could the issue possibly be? Most times it doesn't actually work, and it's far better than taking your girl child to a mountainside and leaving her to die in the elements because she is surplus to requirements - a thing that happens in some cultures.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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And, of course, Timmy, if people can choose the sex of their child as has happened in some parts of China and India and people have attitudes that value men over women there get to be very seriously unbalanced sex ratios. I found this on the web:
"The countries that have the highest proportion of males to females are...
Armenia – 115:100
Azerbaijan – 114:100
Georgia – 113:100
India – 112:100
China – 111:100
Albania – 110:100"
and I also found that qatar is alleged to have 292 men to 100 women.
Maybe it would lead to greater tolerance of homosexuality?
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Macky wrote:
> It would be so neat to talk to the guys and see what the experience is like.
You know, I'm sure the experience was as nerve wracking as any pregnancy and any birth. We already know how they feel:
http://forum.iomfats.org/w-agora/index.php?site=forumiomfatsorg&bn=forumiomfatsorg_placeofsafety&key=1237454766&action=view
I think, if I do have the chance to meet Yonotan I'm more interested in the work of Jerusalem Open House. I think it's obvious that he and his partner adore their child 
Open House is one of those "What can we do?" things that we can all, somehow, contribute to for LGBT kids everywhere.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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