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Yes, I'm screaming. I'll explain if anyone wants me to, but it will be difficult without pointing the finger.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Go for it. I now need to look up 'Oblique Case'.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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The Queen reputedly says "My husband and I…" which is correct in the context as that is the subject of the sentence (nominative case). People who claim to speak the Queen's English then say/write "Noun + I, he she, we, they" whatever the context. Basically they think it is posh.
The concept will be easy for those with a knowledge of Latin or German as they were taught that a preposition always takes a particular case (accusative, genitive, dative, ablative), but never the nominative. Cases other than the nominative are the 'oblique' cases.
English is limited in cases as it depends on word order to make the sense clear. However, it does have some. I becomes me, he him, she her, we us, they them, who whom. (Also thou thee and ye you archaically)
I am particularly incensed by a trailer on Classic FM where Anne-Marie Minhall [posh speaker and she must be with a double-barrelled Christian name] invites us to join a carol concert and I (sic). You would without any qualms invite someone to "join me". So why alter me to I when the carol concert is added? My complaints to the radio station have of course been officially ignored.
The straw broke the camel's back when I read on the board this morning >The more people who are approached by we ordinary folk…< Of course you would say "by us".
Me am going off for a Christmas Sunday lunch now. Me'll see ye all later when you can come back at I.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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It isn't quite as simple as Nigel implies. I've been corrected for saying 'He is quicker than me'. They say that 'me' should be 'I' on the grounds that it is short for 'I am'.
But nobody corrects 'I ain't' to 'I amn't' any more. My mother used to do that!
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Sounds like me, then! Or maybe, in the way of The Duchess in Alice in Wonderland, speaking roughly to your little boy, etc, "Sounds like I." (Sounds like it was I!)
"By we little folk" may be considered another way, just to be more complex. "By those of us who are little folk" or "By 'we who are little folk'", probably incorrect, but turning into "by we little folk".
I recall a sales assistant in a men's wear store picking up a pair of gloves misplaced by a customer asking, "Are these they, Sir?" which is correct and sounds awful.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Casuistry, Timmy, and it doesn't wash.
Some people try to argue that "she who must be obeyed" is a unit and therefore immutable. I can't accept that while I do find it difficult not to accept "her indoors" as immutable.
Like me, not like I (preposition), but as I or as me according to context and Like I said (conjunctions).
The view that the verb to be must take the nominative, or more correctly the same case after it as before it, has long been discredited in English. It doesn't work in French either - c'est moi - the emphatic pronoun.
He is quicker than I is strictly speaking correct, but tends to be beaten on the numbers game. [Same case after than (conjunction) as before it.]
He saw a quicker man than I - He saw a quicker man than me - are both correct, but have different meanings, ie the man he saw was quicker than the man I saw and the man he saw was quicker than I am.
Hugs
N
[Updated on: Sun, 20 December 2009 21:33]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I was raised by the Casuists, and went to a casuist Foundation school. Thus I file my defence.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Surely, Timmy, anyone who knows what casuistry is and believes they have committed it then has to revise their opinion - in the same way that logic 'forces' one to accept the conclusion of a syllogism.
Refusal as the tortiose said to achilles makes all argument impossible.
Maybe that's what you want, but I doubt it.
Love,
Anthony
[Updated on: Mon, 21 December 2009 10:16] |
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Obliquely preposterous 
