I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake since for him a spinal cord would suffice. Albert Einstein
Thank you, Pat, I'm surprised that the liberal catholics are so liberal. I'm also surprised at some of the phraseology.
What's all this about god's plan for marriage? How would anyone know what it is? Where is it written down? And why would anyone feel under any obligation to work to such a plan if it were established somewhere that it really was god's plan?
Morality cannot be simply doing what somebody else wants even is the other person is a god. [This seems self-evident to me since morality implies making a choice and doing what someone else wants is not making a choice - one might as well be in the army, killing other people whenever you are told to.]
Location: Israel
Registered: October 2004
Messages: 1367
acam wrote:
What's all this about god's plan for marriage? How would anyone know what it is? Where is it written down?
Of course I don't really know, Anthony, because I'm not a Catholic - not even a Christian. Possibly they are thinking of Genesis 2:24 - "Therefore shall a man forsake his father and mother and cling to his wife and they shall be one flesh." (My translation.)
morality implies making a choice and doing what someone else wants is not making a choice - one might as well be in the army, killing other people whenever you are told to.
Anthony, I don't understand. Choosing to do what someone else wants is not making a choice?
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
ABSTRACT—The question of why people are motivated to act altruistically has been an important one for centuries, and across various disciplines. Drawing on previous research on moral regulation, we propose a framework suggesting that moral (or immoral) behavior can result from an internal balancing of moral self-worth and the cost inherent in altruistic behavior. In Experiment 1, participants were asked to write a self-relevant story containing words referring to either positive or negative traits. Participants who wrote a story referring to the positive traits donated one fifth as much as those who wrote a story referring to the negative traits. In Experiment 2, we showed that this effect was due specifically to a change in the self-concept. In Experiment 3, we replicated these findings and extended them to cooperative behavior in environmental decision making. We suggest that affirming a moral identity leads people to feel licensed to act immorally. However, when moral identity is threatened, moral behavior is a means to regain some lost self-worth.
Anthony, I don't understand. Choosing to do what someone else wants is not making a choice?
Of course it sometimes is but my choosing to have lunch with you is worlds apart from my 'choosing' to do whatever you say for the next three years (a term in some military forces) or my choosing to follow an example in a book where the examples are incompatible with each other. The latter examples are not moral choices because you cannot comprehend what it is you are agreeing to. I'd say the military example is worse because you are going to obey orders from any officer above you, but obeying the word of god is pretty bad because of the problem of knowing what it is. God never speaks to man; all the words you or anyone else can obey were spoken or written down by men.
And only one man at a time is infallible and even he is not always consistent with his predecessors.
And at any time, after you have 'chosen' to follow the word of god you can decide to stop doing so. What this implies is that cannot really make a permanent choice - on every occasion a moral choice lies before you it is possible for you to follow or not follow the word of god (whatever you think that is). The decision is yours every time if you continue to be a moral person. You cannot palm off your moral responsibility to book or priest or anyone else but yourself.
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
"You cannot palm off your moral responsibility to book or priest or anyone else but yourself." Uh huh.... yeah so that certainly explains all the hate directed at Gay people then doesn't it Anthony?
"No moral deficit to pay off
According to a new study in Psychological Science, humans engage in a process called “moral self-regulation.”
Basically, the idea is that if we are in a state of mind
where we think we’re good people, we’re less likely to act like good people — as in, we’re less likely to be generous to other people or to go out of our way to avoid causing social harm.
If we think we’re already pretty good, the logic goes, why should we waste resources trying to be good — we’ve already accomplished goodness.
The ultimate lesson, I think, is that our motives are rarely what we think they are. We think we want to do good to do good, but more likely we want to do good because we feel guilty. Likewise, those of us who think we’re good people, we’re probably the ones who act the worst — because we think we’ve got no moral deficit to pay off." ~Elizabeth Scanlon Thomas
"You cannot palm off your moral responsibility to book or priest or anyone else but yourself." Uh huh.... yeah so that certainly explains all the hate directed at Gay people then doesn't it Anthony?
What made you think I was trying to explain 'all the hate... '? I wasn't. I was trying to explain what I wrote to JFR.
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
So I gather that me being sarcastic and asking a question implied that Anthony?
My My My, you're a little touchy as that wasn't directed specifically at you.
Did you bother to read my earlier post on morality that I gave you?
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Re: Divide between traditional and liberal catholics 
