I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
Muslims and Christians have been warring since the crusades. I mean they seldom cooperate on anything. So imagine my chagrin when I read the banner in the picture in the linked article below. It would appear that Ugandan Muslims and Christians have joined forces to support killing Uganda's gays. Sometimes well meaning religious people just make me sick.
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
I understand you feeling that way Timmy, but I disagree. They are well-meaning but misguided. I've seen this before and have experienced it in my own life. Notice the banner in the picture. It's partialy covered, but you will notice that it says "prevent child abuse". It's a re-iteration of the vatican's stance that there are no child abuser priests, only gay priests.
This Ugandan thing is the offspring of such an underhanded lie. These people feel that homosexuals are giving their children AIDS. It's called finding a scapegoat, which the Roman Church has tried to do in the instance of Priestly child abuse. They blame it on the gays so Uganda tries to kill the gays. The people are innocent. The pope who OKs this bullshit is a bastard. He will personally have to answer to God, if there is one, for this evil. It's just as wrong as the Crusades or the Inquisition...there is something organically wrong with the church.
The USA has spoken out against this Uganda bullshit, as have many othe r countries. So where are our religiouis leaders? Where's the Vatrican? Why don't they speak out against the impendant murder that they themselves have fostered? Why can't people love "good" without pinning the "bad" on some group and killing them? Fuck, if I were God, I'd fuckihn walk away from the bunch of hopeless retards.
I'm not a good person. I'm a weak, ignoble, cowardly, piece of shit. But if I can realize that these people are being devils, why can't they , who proport to be in favor of the "good". Damn...I'm just bitter I guess. You'll have to excuse me.
Max
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
Macky wrote:> "They are well-meaning but misguided. I've seen this before and have experienced it in my own life. Notice the banner in the picture."
No Max, they are NOT well meaning. I'm not sure if you truly understand the depth of the interference into Sub-Saharan Africa's politics by the Ultra-Right American Evangelicals.
The Uganda measure for example had its Genesis in a conference that was sponsored by a gentleman by the name of Scott Lively in the Spring of 2009.
Then, Super-Pastor Rick Warren of the Saddleback Church in suburban Orange County California entered the picture.
(Please Review Tim & My posts regarding him here and also on our blogs)
If you will go back over our posts, and in the videos I posted regarding the primary Ugandan Evangelical's rant at Warren, he expressed displeasure at what he saw as a hypocritical turnabout by Warren and the other Americans.
Now, apart from that, The Roman Church has actually had very little to do with this. The Anglican Church on the other hand is deeply involved.
Macky wrote:> This Ugandan thing is the offspring of such an underhanded lie. These people feel that homosexuals are giving their children AIDS. It's called finding a scapegoat, which the Roman Church has tried to do in the instance of Priestly child abuse. They blame it on the gays so Uganda tries to kill the gays. The people are innocent. The pope who OKs this bullshit is a bastard. He will personally have to answer to God, if there is one, for this evil. It's just as wrong as the Crusades or the Inquisition...there is something organically wrong with the church.
Again Max, your information is totally incorrect and totally wrong. This is a creature of the Americans, not the Vatican.
I understand your anger Max, but you are not thinking clearly. As far as the people in the banner? Here's the precedence for their so-called banner and rally Max:
Paul Joseph Goebbels, Reichsminister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. In that position, he perfected an understanding of the "Big Lie" technique of propaganda, which is based on the principle that a lie, if audacious enough and repeated enough times, will be believed by the masses.
Goebbels used modern propaganda techniques to psychologically prepare the German people for aggressive war and the annihilation of civilian populations. Among other propaganda devices, he accused many of Germany's ethnic and national minorities (such as the Poles, the Jews, the French) of trying to destroy Germany, claiming that Germany's belligerent actions were taken in self-defense.
If you examine the techniques used by Warren, Lively,and the rest of that lot,re: Ugandan & even in the U. S., the campaign they wage is almost a page ripped right out of Herr Goebbels playbook.
I am not holding the Holy See harmless Max, its just that this time, the Vatican is not culpable for the travesty in Africa.
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
I disagree Brody. Look at the banner. You can't read it all, but it obviously connects being gay with being a child abuser. That's the Roman Church's official defense of it's abusing priests. I understand Warren et al are the direct promulgators of this shit, but where did they get their dumb-assed ideas....from the church trying to extricate itself of any blame for the child abuse among its priests. The church didn't originate the idea, but they ate it up from whatever assholes shit it out. And they are fuckin' wrong. Tell me, has the church ever said that the proposed Ugandan law is anathema? Is it not their duty to do so? Are they not assholes? I can't speak for the other denominations, but I'm really disappointed at mine. I never thought much of making a Hitler Jungend Mitglieder pope anyway....What was JPII thinking when he set him up for the job.
Max
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
Max? It's not only the RC church that uses that line of defence. Look, and you'll need Anti-Nauseous meds, but go research Scott Lively. Oh, btw, according to him, all the Nazi's were Gay and the holocaust wasn't all that bad.
Here, I'll start you off with this. WARNING! This will piss you right the fuck off Max. This guy believes this shit and thinks that, I kid you not, that he is an "expert" on homosexuality.
On March 5-7, 2009, Holocaust revisionist Scott Lively was one of three American activists leading an anti-gay conference in Kampala, Uganda. In this video, Lively explains what he thinks causes homosexuality.
Oh as far as Pope Benedict remaining silent? Yeah well, he is just as bad as the rest of them including Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
It is more of a social experiment, Max. The US hardline fundamentalist evangelists have set this up. They used propaganda and pseudo religion. It would be amusing, were it not so serious, that the muslims joined in. This propaganda coup achieved more than those evangelising bastards could ever have hoped for, and did it so well that they are now running scared.
"The Jews are responsible for all that is bad in our society. Imprison and kill the Jews!"
Sound familiar?
There was nothing 'well meaning but misguided' there, there was public hate, public evil, led by evil people. This is precisely the same.
There is no time to think the best of all involved. What they must be is stopped. And the vile leaders need to be continually exposed for the vile bigots that they are.
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
They really don't see that two men just want to spend their lives together and love one another and they want to kill them solely because they love each other.
But people aren't like that. It's just not natural. Some asshole has led them astray. People at large are basically good. I'll never give that up.
Max
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
Did you watch that video Max? Did you read all of the posts Max?
Macky wrote:> But people aren't like that. It's just not natural. Some asshole has led them astray. People at large are basically good. I'll never give that up.
Max, maybe you are surrounded by too many Amish Buggies & 19th century thinkers.... This is reality Max. Those sorry bastards in the American Evangelical movement honestly want us dead...gone...eliminated! Go read that freak Peter LaBarbera's Americans for Truth site.
Max, reality check. You are NOT living in a Gay environment so you are operating on the basis of misconceptions promulgated by your circumstances. Face it, you & the soccer Mom don't really know just how bad it really is.
You aren't living as a Gay man, you are not out, you obviously by your own admission don't have openly LGBT friends save for here, an online MB which doesn't count really as it is insular by its nature. Max. its alot worse than you realise which is why I jump on your arse.
If you're gonna make statements like that one above Max, you'd best be prepared to catch shit for it. I am not saying folks are evil or being led astray as quite obviously there's truth told there.
I am saying that YOU are NOT paying attention to what Tim & I are saying. Either you are intentionally ignoring us, willfully disregarding facts, or you enjoy a state of blissful ignorance.
Max? Maybe you feel its safe to play it off like you do, but do not be too shocked when Gay people like me bite your head off for that kind of crap. If you want to truly understand being Gay, especially what it truly means, quit trying to be ignorant and actually spend time and attempt to absorb what Tim, Myself, oh and NW too are saying.
Re-read the posts, hell google this stuff. Understand just how bad the opposition is. Oh and yeah, your favorite Pope put his foot in his mouth again today too.... here:
Well, Brody, I think Max is right and that people are fundamentally good and when they behave badly there is a reason and that is where we look to make changes if we want to improve the way the world wags.
OK it's a big oversimplification. So?
So is 'gay' an oversimplification. There are lots of ways of being gay and maybe some of them ought not to have that label but we oversimplify because we don't want an essay with every post.
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
Acam wrote:> "So is 'gay' an oversimplification. There are lots of ways of being gay and maybe some of them ought not to have that label but we oversimplify because we don't want an essay with every post."
My existence is NOT an oversimplification period. And as I stated elsewhere, I am one of those "you're either Gay or Bi types" when viewing the sexuality issues.
The argument I made here and in a way it also applies to you as well is that you do not live your life as a Gay man. You've been married and by your own admission quite happily for over 50 years. Your views are skewed by that essential factor when a discussion comes up on a topic such as this one. Your bias shows Anthony.....
I am not being "nasty" either. Brash, yeah, I'll accept that. Nasty? No. I am having what others would term an argument about a subject where the ultimate outcome to my peers in Uganda could mean state sanctioned death or so called reparative therapy. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy]
Should you choose to play the role of Neville Chamberlain with your view on Uganda, that's your choice. History has shown us that there lies the road to perdition.
I said that it appeared that Max was intentionally overlooking the facts that Tim and I presented in this case. Max challenged us as to the veracity of the total of the Ugandan mess by his simple disagreement without acknowledgment of this past months postings and facts that were discussed.
Finally, I have MY way of arguing a point, you have yours... and play nice? I am very certain that Tim would and will have NO freakin problem tell me to piss off if I crossed the line. Oh and writing essays? I am a wordsmith.
And as I have said before, I honestly do not care if you read my work or not.
BUT, I didn't NOT join here to engage in meaningless dreck & drivel. I joined to:
A) Make a Contribution to a Gay Community
B) Use my skills as a journalist to bring stories here that are highly relevant to the greater community on GAY issues with an occasional off topic post on something I think is worth sharing such as that satellite photo of snow-bound Britain a couple of days ago.
Now, there is this too. YOU may not like my style or the way I carry myself. Fine. You also have 25 plus years on me and are from another era. But what you may not realise is that there are tons of lurkers to this place that are way younger than you AND I, that do hunger for information, radical ideas, guidance, and yeah, they learn from our mistakes too.
I will cater to that crowd as they will be the leaders of tomorrow. What I fight for now is to help give them a chance to succeed. Knowledge is power. Ideas and philosophy come from folks who take the time to "essay" about that which is critical. ie: Genocide in Uganda
I am a member here, have I NOT the right to take a person to task for opinion? Or is this really an Old London Gentleman's Club as I have charged before? If you want me to leave, at this juncture, I'd be more than happy to oblige as I have NO desire to suffer from a persistent case of intellectual decay Anthony.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
I am not really part of this discussion, but I'm going to place myself in it over one thing. The rest you boys can sort out between yourselves. Nicely, please.
Brody Levesque wrote:
> The argument I made here and in a way it also applies to you as well is that you do not live your life as a Gay man. You've been married and by your own admission quite happily for over 50 years. Your views are skewed by that essential factor when a discussion comes up on a topic such as this one. Your bias shows Anthony.....
Anthony's bias may show, it may not. And that is not what I am going to take issue with. I just wanted to point out that I have also never lived as a gay man. I have been happily married since July 1979 to a girl I have loved since October 1978. So why does Anthony have a skewed view when mine is acceptable to you?
He's done more than I have. He's shagged more than one chap before he was married. Doesn't that make him gayer than I am?
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
I actually thought about that statement of yours Tim at length. In many ways, I perceive that the positions you take as titular head of this community and owner of this place are quite different.
I am finding it difficult to express precisely. I suppose that because you are 'proactive' might be my perception. I wasn't aiming at the "sexual' aspects so much as the other.
You are married to your wife, given. you are happy too, also a given. BUT the difference, in is the degree of 'community' involvement in a world sense you have versus say Anthony & Max who it appears have a tendency to pay lip service to activism that can be beneficial as I stated above in my response to Anthony to those younger who wait & watch sometimes from afar.
Now, having said my peace, I am going to withdraw from this particular discussion as I only see nothing further to be gained except for incidents of harsh statements, ugly diatribes, and other nonsense that is not conducive to Tim's stated goals and aims of his board. I have NO desire to be part of that. I'll restate this this: Knowledge is power and appeasement is the road to perdition.
"entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem"
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
I think we need to let each contribute in his own way. None of us is perfect. I have chosen to be proactive because I can. Others may be unable to be.
It takes quite a lot to suddenly be open and start to crusade. I don't say that to glorify myself, my actions aren't large. I say it to explain why others appear less active.
But, as long as each does all he can then he is worthy of respect.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
One of the things I have done is written to all my elected representatives. and this is starting to pay off. I'm not going into it here, instead please read http://bit.ly/8vFgiH
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