|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I was heartened to receive an email today from a young man of approximately eighteen summers in pain because he is deeply, hopelessly and unrequitedly in love with another boy i his school. He read my story on the site and identifies with it.
What would you suggest to him? Apart from coming here. Among other things I've suggested that to him. This is his final year of high school and I think he is in the USA.
[Updated on: Mon, 22 March 2010 09:28]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What I have always said, when someone tells me they **really** like another is that someone should make friends. Approach the other and talk to them. Try to spend time with them when talk is easy such at at a meal of over coffee. Try to find common interests so that you may do things together. Talk.
Talk is the way.
What advice did you give? Or what did you say?
I think it is a bit presumptuous to offer advice without knowing anything about either of the guys or their circumstances.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I can only agree, Anthony...the circimstances matter a great deal.
For a boy like this to say he is in love tells me little. If he is eighteen then there has been a good deal of time for him to think about what he wants in a relationship. How to achieve it is another matter entirely.
Hopelessly and madly in love is not where it should start, that brings such pressure to bear, emotions run high and disappointment can be so devastating. Love is something best contemplated after a stage of sharing time together, a time of understanding. I don't even know if the boy sees this love interest as more than fantasy.
I could easily fall in love with the boy who lives up the road. His physical and mental parameters are perfect, but that leads me to say he is but seventeen and I worship from afar, I will settle for his friendship. But Timmy's aquaintance obviously has gay feelings, we know nothing about the other lad.
In a perfect world, of which I cannot say the USA exists, a boy would feel able to enter into a friendship with the hopes that other feelings might develop. But the teen years are filled with pressure, conformity to peer ideals, and this young man has to overcome that as well.
"Love sees not with the eyes but with the mind..." Master Shakespeare tells us, and he is so right. This young man must put aside the profession of love until such time as he can say the other boy has some real basis for returning that love. A coffee and good conversation would be a great place to start, I wish him well. :-*
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
...before offering advice to this young man specifically and other young men generally.
Once, when I rashly mentioned "love at first sight", Donny (Eldon) hurled back at me, "There is no such thing as love at first sight: there is only lust at first sight."
There is a lot of wisdom in that sentence. I think this young man must first be certain in his own heart and mind that what he feels is love and not lust. That is the easiest thing to say, but for an 18 year old it is probably the hardest thing to do.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
 |
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
My heart goes out to him. This has to be so very hard to endure, and anything that he can do to ameliorate the situaion is almost as hard.
Anthony and Chris are definitely right about not knowing the circumstances and the presumptuousness of advising in the dark.
However, I think I can say this much. He shouldn't try to do this alone. He has taken a good step by writing anonymously to somebody on the web, but I think having a flesh and blood person to share the burdon with would be applicable in most of the circumstances I can think of.
I would suggest that he think about whether he could open up about this with;
A parent
A sibling
A friend
his doctor
his clergy person
Anyone who he feels would be accepting. It doesn't have to be someone learned or experienced in these matters. It should be someone who is accepting and can listen.
And I think that everyone would agree that it would be best to try to get to know the other boy socially if he loves from afar.
If the other boy is a long time friend, or after having come to know him better, he should tell the boy. The joy or the healing can not begin until this happens.
After telling him he should be prepared for possible rejection. About 10% of the population is gay, so there's about a 90% chance that the other party is straight. He may get luckier, like I did. The boy I loved did not reject me when I confessed my love and he was supportive. I hurt for 2 years, but at least the boy I loved remained a friend. A happy possibility; that he might win the lottery and enter a nice relationship, will never be known until he confesses his love.
If rejected or amicably turned down, he should know that the hurt will not last forever. My personal experience is that it goes on for 2 years. During that time he should try to socialize as much as possible. He won't feel like doing it. I didn't do it. But the more he manages to do it, the shorter will be his time of hurting.
God I wish I could make him believe that even if it turns out badly for a relationship, that there is light and possibilities for future love at the end of the tunnel. People in this situation can never accept that emotionally, but people in this situation need to turn to the logical left brain to guide them through these things, and try to dampen the emotions of the right brain. It's just so hard.
Max
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
J F R wrote:
> Once, when I rashly mentioned "love at first sight", Donny (Eldon) hurled back at me, "There is no such thing as love at first sight: there is only lust at first sight."
Beg to differ - love at first sight does happen, and is very different from lust at first sight. It is, of course, very much rarer ... but it *is* possible to experience a meeting of souls, receptiveness to each others pheremones, and all the other things that make up our experience of love, inside of ten minutes ... I know: I've done it.
But I do think it's probably impossible to tell whether something is love or lust, until one has experienced lust and knows it clearly is not what is going on ... so the advice to take things gently and get to know as a friend is certainly wise.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh, Macky, I really don't think you should recommend a priest. I do think religion is a perversion of the human spirit and that people who put their hearts and souls into promoting it are mentally sick.
And when I fell in love and it was unrequited what did my college chaplain do? He seduced me, of course.
Maybe you have better experience of the church that I have but a large number of people have worse and were seduced at 14 or16.
You have to use a lot of judgement before you can trust a priest.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Anthony,
You great hunk of atheistic sweetness, you. I said clergy person. But, in all honestly, you must have seen me when I originally wrote priest and reconsidered thinking 'now Anthony is going to call me out on that' and changed it first to clergyman and then to clergyperson (sometimes women can be more compassionate with guy gays).
And hell, Timmy said this guy's 18 so if he wants to have a roll in the hay with a priest, well hell....you aren't gonna say that 2 consenting adults can't engage in consensual sex are you? And I've seen some pretty young priests around too. If I weren't married, I might consider going for some counseling myself.
Max
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kiwi
|
 |
Likes it here |
Location: New Zealand
Registered: August 2009
Messages: 317
|
|
|
Max,
You're bad! (What this site needs is one of those spanking icons ;-D )
When you say 'pretty young priests' - do you mean quite young, or just pretty? Personally, I think their dresses are ridiculous!
cheers
Commas matter - 'Party on Dudes' is not the same as 'Party on, Dudes'
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Well kiwi, here's the gent I was thinking about when I wrote that. His name is Father Cutie. Yes, Father Cutie...Google it if you don't believe me.
http://theblackcordelias.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/father-cutie.jpg
NOw, Father Cutie ain't really our type. He quit the priesthood out of a weakness for nice ladies.
HOWEVER....if I were single, and he were to take a walk on the wild side (subjunctive mood Nigel...eh....eh?), why I think I could like him a lot.
Yes, I think we could be real good friends.
Max
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You guys are too funny! I love it! But, what is with the "roll in the hay" phrase that began way back when...? I mean, have you ever done that? I did once, in a barn when I was a kid... a long time ago.. long... ok, not that long . Point is, it hurts like hell! It's all prickly, and we got rashes on... well, we got rashes!
I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
... have you? That's good, because you definitely do not want to be doing that ... ever!
Film-makers and Authors (both mainstream and pornographic) for whatever reason, have immortalized that concept, much to the chagrin of many a fellow when he's tried to replicate the adventure.
You are not the first, and definitely won't be the last either; myself included. I remember well (and somewhat fondly) my d'alliance with "Eddie", the red-headed eldest son of the local Pig-farmer, in his father's barn one summer afternoon. I remember too (perhaps, all too well it strikes now me some fifty years later), the lasting physical discomfort both he and I endured, and our ending up having outed each other as a consequence during our first school shower together some days there after.
Not nice. The itching, the rash, the everything ... the notoriety. Was it worth it? Damn right it was. That boy was simply delectable, and I wouldn't have missed it for the world. He and I were both thirteen at the time, suffering through grade nine, blemishes, teen-angst, girls ... well you all get the picture.
Despite it all, Eddie inherited the farm, vacationed in Trinidad one spring and ended up marrying into one of the World's great sugar-cane fortunes, and the rest as they say is, LOL, history.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
[Updated on: Tue, 23 March 2010 03:51]
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ray2x
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 430
|
|
|
Well, this boy certainly knows he's in love or has gay feelings and loves another boy. I'd say that's a good start. Being eighteen is a very busy involved time in any young person's life. It's a true beginning, a true ending too and mix in a boatload of emotions, goals, fears and wonderments, it's quite a time. But like I said, he knows he's gay and knows he's in love.
He certainly can read some of the great love stories here. He can certainly post and seek additional information. He can talk with this other boy who shouldn't be kept in the dark about what is happening. There could be loss. Or whatever. I'd like to give myself this advise if I could have another chance at being eighteen.
Raymundo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sure that was caused by the hay?
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh, yes, Macky, they're OK when they roll in the hay; it's when they get serious you have to watch them.
The prettiest I ever saw was the curate who married my eldest daughter at her forst wedding. He was good enough to be the original of that wonderful comment "non angli sed angeli" (not English but angels). Blonde and sweet and slight and we were all convinced the priest and he were partners. In those days I was far more circumspect about my sexuality and I never even tried to make friends with him.
Any priests on here should take my rants with a pinch of salt. I'm almost civilised to meet face to face (and, of course, I had cousins who were cardinals!)
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
My cousins were only ordinals.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh dear, Anthony, as you haven't asked I suppose I'd better explain. I had 1st cousins and 2nd cousins, some of them removed. I don't know of any 3rd cousins.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sweet, Nigel. Aren't I slow? I didn't get it. I guess I take life too seriously.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
O golly gee whizz. Another boy hopelessly and unrequitedly in love. I mean is there any other kind of boy on this forum? OK lets assume that this boy did not just grow up out of a crack in the pavement (sproik) or fall out of the sky (plumph) at the feet of the guy who wrote to you. Lets assume that the writer has known this other guy for a while, or like all through school maybe? So if he is not friends with this guy by now, why bother?
So here is my advice. Dude you got nothing to lose in the last two months of school. Talk to this other guy and see what happens. Even if he tells everybody that he things you are gay, who cares? After graduation everybody forgets everybody they knew in high school anyway because of college. Happened to my brother and both my cousins. Like you suddenly get to reinvent yourself.
The alternative to not talking to the dude is to get to be sixty and still be wondering if something might have happened if only you had the guts to make a move and then write a letter to the guy only to have him not remember you at all like WTF is this dude writing to me after all this time?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aussie
|
|
Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
|
|
|
"The alternative to not talking to the dude is to get to be sixty and still be wondering if something might have happened if only you had the guts to make a move and then write a letter to the guy only to have him not remember you at all like WTF is this dude writing to me after all this time?"
How right you are Cabinboy and your posts are most refreshing.
It's really good to hear the young point of view.
Aussie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
There is one thing that is important. Very important.
I spent my life, almost all of it since I was 13, obsessed by the memory, the hope, the unrequited love for one John. He was probably not beautiful and certainly not perfect, but I thought he was both of those things. I last saw him in 1970 when he and I were both around 18. I have loved, obsessed and hoped for him since then. And I finally forced my way out of the prison I'd made in my mind only really last year.
I was so afraid, you see, of "losing him". He was everything to me. Everything.
The truth is that you can only lose what you have. I could not lose him because he was never mine to lose. But, just maybe, possibly, he could have been. I never knew and I'll never know because I never, not ever asked him, told him I loved him, and risked being told in no uncertain terms to go and fuck myself!
Now think very hard about the little you have to lose if you tell your non-relationship friend:
- You have a few weeks to go in school. Even if it all goes horribly wrong you can survive a few weeks.
- You are supported by your parents financially. Would that truly be at risk or do they love you?
- If he hits you, even breaks your nose, all that will do is hurt. Surely knowing is worth that?
- If you are gay, and you probably are IF you also are attracted to other boys then this particular piece of shit is going to hit the fan anyway soon enough.
I'm not suggesting you put on a pink angora sweater and tight leather pants and mince into school tomorrow! I'm suggesting that you make a quiet and confident plan to confess to him that you need to talk to him and you're scared of talking to him. And you tell him, quietly, that you can't go through the rest of your life without telling him that you love him, that you know it is unlikely to be returned in any way, but that you just need to hear it from his lips and know he means it, whatever the answer is.
You can not lose him this way. You can't lose your self respect. You can lose your reputation, but how much does that matter? Truly only you can assess your high school.
Please, whatever you decide, DO NOT LIVE MY LIFE. It was AWFUL loving John for all these years. I wasted so much time and was so ANGRY all the time because I didn't know... Even today I don't know for sure. Do not live my life! The whole site is about helping people not follow my awful, horrible road.
I never lost John. I never had him. He was not mine to lose. Instead I lost me. I failed my degree. I lost every job I ever had, and I am damned good at them, by being fired for being angry, or tactless, or some other ridiculous reason, and all that was because I wanted John. I admit freely how stupid I was. Do not be like me.
Come and lurk for a while at http://forum.iomfats.org and, when you see that folk are ordinary, post your problem there and see how, if, they react, but do not delay past the end of high school. Even one day's delay is too long.
Tell me what you decide to do. And, when you tell him, tell me the outcome.
[Updated on: Wed, 24 March 2010 10:55]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mr. Tim this is a great letter. Really its awesome. I wish you had posted this first because it might have stopped some of the discussion about it.
I would write more but I have to get to school.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
Discussion is good, though. If I'd posted it first I'd never have seen how you posted the same advice 
My answer is not necessarily the right answer. It makes sense in my situation. Only he can judge if it makes sense in his.
[Updated on: Wed, 24 March 2010 10:58]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
