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icon3.gif Macky-Acam-Tim-Raymundo & Others Whom Are Married:  [message #61820] Mon, 05 April 2010 20:53 Go to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



I Post This Without Comment Nor Expressing An Opinion:


"‘Situational heterosexuality’ is a term I’ve used for several years when people have asked how I could have been married for so many years and yet be gay. This term has also helped people gain a clearer understanding of what really happens when someone who is homosexual marries someone of the opposite sex and claims change. Confusion about what really happens in these situations still exists and often wrongly reinforces the ‘homosexuality is a choice’ and ‘homosexuals can change’ concept.

"How often have you heard someone say something like this ‘They couldn’t be gay, they’re married’. When someone says that to me, I just remain silent for a while with a smile on my face (having been a gay man in a heterosexual marriage) and wait for what I’m actually thinking to sink into the consciousness of the person who made the naive statement."

The term ‘situational homosexuality’ is used to describe same sex behaviours in prison, the military, single sex boarding schools, or other sex-segregated communities, where members of those communities might engage in homosexual activity or relationships. Once they come out of that situation they have not become homosexual, they revert to their natural orientation; sex and relationships with the opposite sex. It’s only the situation that created the behaviour; the orientation wasn’t changed.

CONFUSION OVER BEHAVIOUR VS ORIENTATION
People who believe that a heterosexual marriage and children are proof that a person is no longer homosexual seem to be ignorant of the true dynamics of sexual orientation and have a simplistic view of sexual behaviour. Alfred Kinsey’s ground breaking research (late 40’s and early 50’s) in the area of human sexuality revealed many things. Whilst not all his discoveries have become standard psychological practise he opened the way for us to look at human sexuality in more realistic terms instead of making assumptions based on a Victorian, repressed and ignorant cultural mindset. Kinsey developed a seven point scale with 0 representing individuals who had only heterosexual intercourse and with 6 representing those who engaged in only same-sex activities. This created the concept of bi-sexuality and that some people may, from time to time, engage in same sex behaviours but not actually be homosexual in orientation.

Kinsey and his associates found that 37 per cent of the males and 13 percent of the females in their sample had had at least one homosexual encounter. Are these people homosexual in orientation, bisexual or heterosexuals who were playing up, being opportunistic or experimenting?

Further research over the last five decades has given us a more comprehensive understanding of sexual orientation.
Our sexual orientation involves brain wiring, thought processing, hormones and release of chemicals in the body with the final outcome demonstrated in our behaviour.
Our true sexual orientation is reflected by:
1. The gender we are attracted to sexually
2. The gender we fantasize about
3. The gender we desire intimacy and affection with
4. The gender we are likely to fall in love with
5. The gender we want to partner with 6. How we identify ourselves
7. With all social, religious and legal restrictions removed and the opportunity to have sexual experience with either gender, which one would we honestly chose. Or as one person put it to me recently ‘In the morning, whose arms would you like to wake up in.’

So a person’s sexual orientation is determined by much more than their sexual behaviour. Or to put it another way, our sexual behaviour, solely, doesn’t indicate our sexual orientation. Genuine bisexuality would also include all of the above with either gender. Some people think they are bisexual because they have had sex with both male and female. I know I thought that for years but this is not necessarily true. For some people using the bisexual tag/identity is a useful and safe place for them to pause on their journey to accepting their gay self/identity.

CONFUSION OVER SAME SEX ATTRACTION (SSA) VS SEXUAL ORIENTATION
I’d like a dollar for every time I’ve received an email from someone seeking help telling me they are ‘struggling with same sex attraction’ (SSA). The term SSA is frequently used in the ‘ex-gay’ world by individuals and in their literature. The phrase 'same sex attraction' is usually a deliberate choice to move the person’s perception of their sexuality away from an orientation (which gives it a scientific basis and is innate) to a behaviour (which can be suppressed denied or 'possibly' changed).

SO WHAT IS ‘SITUATIONAL HETEROSEXUALITY’?
‘Situational heterosexuality’ is when a person who is same sex oriented enters a heterosexual marriage and has a degree of ‘heterosexual functionality’. This is not a change in orientation only behaviour; created by the situation.

HOMOSEXUALS IN A HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGE – WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON?

You will often find men and women in the ‘ex-gay’ world speaking of their marriage as evidence that they are no longer homosexual. Those who are honest though, tell us they still have to deal with temptations, thoughts and desires towards the same sex. Some ‘ex-gay’ leaders in Australia have been honest enough to admit to ‘strugglers’ that ‘they will always walk with a limp’, meaning the gay never really goes away. In an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Alan Chambers, the director of Exodus (the global umbrella organisation for ex-gay ministries), sent shock waves through religious circles, when he stated that, "By no means would we ever say change can be sudden or complete," and that he was uncomfortable with the term 'ex-gay' as he doesn't think he's ever met one. Even after years as a husband and father he still struggles at times with homosexual temptation.

It’s not uncommon for men who have suppressed, denied and hated their same sex orientation to develop a sexual addiction or obsession. When they get married they have a sexual outlet which is free of shame and guilt and much more socially and religiously acceptable. This is a great relief for them to finally feel ‘normal’, ‘wholesome’ even ‘pure’. As one research project clearly pointed out they had had sex with 100’s men once and sex with one woman 100’s of times. It is easy to see how they and others confuse this new found experience with the opposite sex as evidence of change. They do however conveniently ignore the fact that any infidelity within the marriage would never happen with another female, it would only ever be with a man.

What many of us have found out, finally leaving the heterosexual marriage to live as openly gay men and lesbians, that being true to yourself, instead of moving us into a life of promiscuity and sexual abandonment, actually releases us from the addictions and obsessions and new sense of morality and control emerges. Why didn’t someone tell me that when I was 18?

From my experience, working with 100’s of people in these situations, ‘situational heterosexuals’ rarely experience the depth, frequency or diversity of sexual experience that genuine heterosexuals couples do. One client sadly admitted to me that after many years of marriage he couldn’t recall one moment of intimacy, even though they had sex fairly regularly throughout the marriage. He didn’t actually know what intimacy was as his sexual experiences with men before he got married were mostly brief encounters with no affection or real connection, driven by his addiction and clouded with shame. It wasn’t till he came out and fell in love with a man that he discovered intimacy within that relationship and had a life experience to make a comparison. Others have confessed that in order for them to perform in the bedroom they had to fantasise having sex with men. Others, in the end, just tried to avoid it after years of feeling a sense of duty and obligation no longer worked. What a tragic situation for all concerned.

THE SADDEST THINGS ABOUT THIS SITUATION
This false assumption by many that a heterosexual marriage means a person is no longer homosexual has caused much unnecessary suffering.

1. Well meaning Christians will often use these ‘ex-gay’/heterosexual marriages as examples that change is possible and pressure those who are gay or lesbian to reject their natural orientation. They do this with limited or no knowledge of sexual orientation or of the finer, personal details of these marriages. Too often parents and friends have been quoted as saying ‘look at so and so ….they changed…..they are now married with children, You can do it to with prayer and faith’

2. Seekers of sexual orientation change who come to ‘ex-gay’ ministries are tormented and desperate. They hate being gay and will latch on to any possibility of change. The ‘ex-gay’/heterosexual marriage modelled by the ‘ex-gay’ leader is just the answer they seek. They look at the marriages and selectively ignore the honest confessions that these people still ‘struggle’. This false hope leads people into many wasted years trying to do the impossible, that is, turn from gay to straight. As one former ‘ex-gay’ leader in Australia said to me recently, after leaving his marriage to be true to himself, ‘For 20 years I was sold a very cruel lie’ or as Scott from Perth said ‘I lost my entire 20’s, I felt like I was robbed of what should have been enjoyable days of my youth’.

3. The opposite sex partner will often believe they are 'called' to walk the journey with their partner to ‘heterosexuality’. As history has shown, rarely do these marriages last, leaving the heterosexual partner with a sense of betrayal and the feeling that they may have contributed in some way to their partner not changing. Or they are resentful that they have given the best years of their lives to a person who promised to love and be with them for life. A promise they were unable to fulfil.

4. And finally the children. One thing many people want in this situation is children. We want to be parents. I know I wanted to not only be husband but also a father. I believe now, I was more in love with the idea of being a husband and father (ie being ‘normal’) than I was in love with my wife. When the marriage finally breaks down, often during mid-life, the children are also traumatised and have to deal with the added shame that their Dad has ‘become’ gay or their Mother ‘become’ a lesbian. As many of these kids are a part of a Christian community the scandal is intensified. As my daughter Hannah said recently in an interview on the ABC ‘If you are gay and get married hoping it will change you, then it is a very selfish act as you don’t know what hurt you will create in the generations to come.’

These are very tragic and unnecessary outcomes for all concerned.

1. The person living with the false hope that one day they will be straight,
2. The straight partner who is doing everything possible to create the ‘miracle’ and
3. The children who are anticipating a lifetime of security with a Dad and Mum that will live and love together till death parts them.

Whilst I’m grateful for the years of married life and the lovely children and grandchildren I’ve had, I also have to live with the knowledge that I have been the source of the greatest trauma, pain and shame in the lives of the people I cared most about. Could I have turned back the hands of time I would not have chosen that for them or myself.

Former "ex-gay" evangelical minister Anthony Venn-Brown. Brown, now one of Australia's leading LGBT activists, compares the situational homosexuality found in prisons to the reverse situation faced by gay men in heterosexual marriages.

[Updated on: Mon, 05 April 2010 20:57]

Love, sexuality, and relationships  [message #61821 is a reply to message #61820] Mon, 05 April 2010 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800



I think one must be wholly aware that love does not respect sexuality or the sex of the beloved.

I married for love, not to 'be' anything, I agree that this makes me 'situationally heterosexual', but I am not at all that way inclined. And I have had trouble convincing more than one person that I am not bisexual, I am homosexual.

Love can, but does not always, mean that sexual functions are both possible and enjoyable. People who have never had the mixed fortune to be in a relationship with what might be termed an 'inappropriate sex' (gender is a grammar word, sex refers to the person) seem unable, sometimes unwilling, to understand this.

Love may also be wholly platonic. Note the love that servicemen have for each other. No sex takes place, but one will die for another. That is love.

[Updated on: Mon, 05 April 2010 21:23]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
The 'photo' you have chosen ...  [message #61822 is a reply to message #61820] Mon, 05 April 2010 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




... to illustrate your thesis is decidedly thought provoking in of itself, and likely the most representational visual I've yet to see on the topic.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada



"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
Re: Macky-Acam-Tim-Raymundo & Others Whom Are Married:  [message #61823 is a reply to message #61820] Mon, 05 April 2010 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



Most of what you wrote, Brody, applies to me but some doesn't.

I've never denied being gay and never pretended anything else to my wife or my close friends. To all your seven questions my answer is male.

I'm lucky in being almost unaffected by religion. The priest I knew best took me to bed!

I wanted not to be gay for maybe a few years (say from ages 20 - 25?) because of the dangers and problems but I realised that I couldn't change my orientation and still be me.

I've never thought I was being 'cured' of homosexuality by living a heterosexual life.

I don't think I have caused my wife and children or grandchildren trauma, pain or shame. Megan is mildly embarrassed when I pick her up from school in purple tights!

Haven't I been lucky?

Love,
Anthony

[Updated on: Mon, 05 April 2010 21:42]

Re: Love, sexuality, and relationships  [message #61824 is a reply to message #61821] Mon, 05 April 2010 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800



I think we must also recognise that by no means all gay men married to women are in the relationship from true love. In my generation and generations prior to that a marriage was not only expected, but was expedient. Sex works because the body is designed for sex to work. In general a bit of friction leads to an orgasm, and most men can manage this during penetrative sex. Children arrive.

In this regard I have wondered about my own marriage. I love my wife deeply. That we celebrate our 31st wedding anniversary this year is not an accident. We have had a healthy sex life, certainly until we discovered we were infertile, something that colours everything to do with sex, but I need very few of the fingers on one hand to count the number of orgasms I have achieved during penetrative sex, either with her or with the girls I tried out for size earlier.

So I have wondered whether my homosexuality is the reason I have never been able to leave the relentless masturbation of teenage behind. Intellect says there is some mechanical disturbance based on my penile history. Emotion says differently.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Macky-Acam-Tim-Raymundo & Others Whom Are Married:  [message #61825 is a reply to message #61820] Mon, 05 April 2010 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973



The article mentioned a quite a few things that apply to me.

I wanted a socially acceptable relationship. I couldn't muster the courage and I really didn't want to come out as gay. So I did a lot of casual sex. I was in an open relationship with a guy for 10 years, but nobody ever knew.

I determined that a committed one on one relationship was a step towards a socially acceptable relationship. That way I could escape the guilt of having so many partners. Finally I mustered the courage. I asked the guy I was in the open relationship with for a committment. He couldn't do that.

I became discouraged that a normal committed relationship could be had as a gay. I had tried for better than a decade with no luck. I wanted a relationship that I didn't need to feel guilty about. I wanted kids. I wanted depth and committment. I wanted to live a normal clean life. I didn't seem to be able to do that as a gay man, so I decided that I would search for my lifemate among the opposite sex.

I went through what seems like hundreds of dates with lots of different women. I was a member of one of those 'meet your match' clubs. I knew how to get picked up in a gay bar, but I found the equivalent hetero places hopelessly boring...I really couldn't stand them.

Most of the women I met were boring, some were repulsive (just wanting sex), and a few became friends who I would visit and converse with. But none of them were anyone I'd want to spend my life with. So I put an ad in the lonely hearts of the paper...thats what you did pre-internet.

I thought long and hard about what to put in the ad. I determined what I liked best about people. I stated it well in 50 words. Most of the responses I received were uninteresting. One wasn't. Most of the dates I had from the ad were uninteresting. One wasn't.

The lady who became my wife made me forget about myself. I liked her a lot. I would look forward to visiting and spending time with her. I felt that she really liked me. And I couldn't help but reciprocate. We always had great fun together. I absolutely knew that this was someone that I could spend my life with and be happy.

We married 2 weeks after I proposed. We had a son 2 years after that. I can't say that I did not miss the gay world though. Indeed I visited gay establishments from time to time, for about the first 10 years of our marriage. Once on a business trip, I even hired a male prostitute. But I could not cheat on my wife. Something never let me do that. I am so happy that some combination of luck and self discipline kept me faithful to my wife. She's the only person I've had sex with since marriage.

I was right about marrying this woman. I chose well. Over the years my great liking for her became love. But our sexual relationship faultered to the tune of a 14 year dry spell. That situation reversed itself after I came out to her last March. We have a superb sex life now.

I have come to love my wife very deeply. When I consider the perfect mate for me, she is all that comes to mind. I'm still a homosexual. My wife is still the only woman I ever had sex with and she is still the only woman I ever wanted to have sex with. Somehow I fell through life's pachinko machine just right. I didn't marry her to hide my homosexuality. I married her because I knew that this was someone that I would always want to be with.

In conclusion I would have to say that it is possible for a gay man to fall in love with a straight woman and to live a very happy fulfilled life with her. But I'll always have an eye for good looking guys. In that regard, I'm in the same situation as a guy in a committed gay relationship.

Max



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: Macky-Acam-Tim-Raymundo & Others Whom Are Married:  [message #61863 is a reply to message #61825] Thu, 08 April 2010 05:07 Go to previous message
ray2x is currently offline  ray2x

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 430



I do not feel like an ex-gay man. I finally did discover that I am a gay man and a married man. Funny, it was the birth of my daughter which brought me to this discovery. I can be dense at times, and it took a monumental event to get me thinking about it. I do hope and wish I was not denying my gay nature and hope I can get further in touch with being gay again.



Raymundo
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