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First let me say, I am not sure I understand these people but in a democracy orginizations like this abound. The ADL was founded a hundred years ago to speak to the discrimination and bigotry in our society, specifically that which is directed at the Jewish community.
An article about the ADL today caught my eye, but first this. As an organization reflecting Jewish society, and thus some of the most strict religious views in the world, I was surprised and pleased to see that the ADL appears to support gay rights...to a degree.
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/DiRaB_41/4457_41.htm
We can all understand that the major opposition to gay equality in this country is religious based bigotry and that is what I presumed the ADL's approach might be, they hate bigots...and then I read this:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/anti-defamation-league-rebuked-for-opposition-to-planned-mosque-at-n-y-s-ground-zero-1.305185
Credibility is one of the things a succesful organization must hold dear, the ADL just shot that all to hell with this. I am not one of those Muslum bashers who mindlessly blame all of Islam for the 9/11 disaster. Sure, it's a named religion that appears more as a cult to me, but then they all do.
I suppose if I want my gay rights to be accepted then I have to allow their rights as well. It's bigotry to oppose the location of a mosque, but then I despise most narrow minded New Yorkers too so I guess that makes me a bigot. The World Trade Center address is not a holy site, just a holy mess at the moment. The mosque they wish to build is blocks away, but now it seems no matter the location the ADL will find some excuse to oppose it.
Oddly enough I don't suppose there would be any objections if a neo-Nazi group opened a meeting hall across the street from a gay community center. Would New Yorkers object to any other religion opening a church or house of worship close to the 9/11 site? The Muslums need to get their act together, no doubt. I guess this silly issue will go away any time soon.
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I admit that my head is now spinning. So let me attempt to summarise what I think you are saying and what others are saying:
- The ADL is primarily anti defamation against Jews
- The ADL appears to have widened its brief in support of gay civil marriages while making no positive or negative statement about religious ceremonies
- It appears to be widening its brief still further to object to a mosque being granted the US equivalent of planning consent in a particular location which also has no particular jewish significance save by happenstance
If I have that right then I have one simple question:
Why are they involving themselves in the mosque issue, which is nothing to do with defamation?
I don't think they have lost credibility in other areas, but I do think they should pull out of the mosque discussion. Gay defamation is likely to be within their remit, but Islam is not, except that they ought, presumably, to act against defamation of Islamic folk as well as Jewish folk.
I'm not going to get drawn into the mosque discussion.
[Updated on: Mon, 02 August 2010 16:35]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think that both Chris and Timmy are right on this one. This does seem to be an American issue, one which has hardly reached the newspapers here. But I did find the following snippet in one English language newspaper:
>>The New York Times quoted the ADL Executive Director Abraham Foxman as saying, "It's not a question of their right [to build the mosque], but a question of what are rights?" Foxman added "in our opinion, to build an Islamic center in the shadow of what was the World Trade Center will cause grief to the families of the victims, and therefore it is wrong." Foxman's words drew a wave of furious criticism in New York. Rabbi Irwin Kula, President of CLAL, the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, responded "The ADL should be ashamed of itself." Referring to the Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf who is behind the plan to build the mosque, Kula said "Here, we ask the moderate leaders of the Muslim community to step forward, and when one of them does, he is treated with suspicion."<<
FWIW, I agree with Kula (and therefore also with Chris and Timmy).
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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In news reports here in the US the leaders of the Muslum community who wish to build this mosque seem quite moderate. In fact, they have pledged to allow the space to be inclusive of non-Muslum kids in youth programs. At least they recognize the needs of the entire community.
The renovation of the old building will take years and they don't plan to start right away. Spending millions of dollars on construction in an already cash strapped city and providing jobs to the workers sounds like a good idea to me. I can only hope that over time this issue is resolved.
Between the New York City administration and the Federal government the only thing the World Trade Center site has become is a giant hole in the ground. In nine years they have done little else except talk about how wonderful this "memorial site" will be. All this while the firefighters and policemen and women who responded to the crisis die from lung disease without medical assistance. Any wonder I don't like that city? >
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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There is a danger in discussing this mosque rather that the ADL and its peculiar position. That danger is the one of taking an entrenched position without knowledge. You may have that knowledge. I do not.
But it is easy to become partisan against Islam. Followers of that faith could so easily become tomorrow's Jews in terms of persecution and bad attitudes against them.
Now I see the ADL's role as protecting them from defamation, too.
Individual ADL members are entitled to voice their private opinions, but the opinion expressed on the ADL's behalf by its executives is inappropriate.
Is it bigoted? I suspect not. I suspect it is trying to express what it perceives as public opinion. But that is a stupid thing to do. It shows role creep.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Anti-Defamation League bigotry? 
