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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I'm getting bored. I see no practical use of this place. Everyone likes to post happy sweet things. We avoid the hard things, sweep them quietly under the carpet as if they were not there.
Not all of you are like that. But a great many are. And you who are show today's kids who drop by the same image that Liberace showed.
So why should I keep this open?
Give me a solid reason.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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... whatever it was that Liberace showed!
Not that back in the day I couldn't do Katherine Hepburn's padded-shoulders, Jane Russell bustière's, Doris Day's tulip-skirts, or Joan Crawford's black lace stockings and "come fuck me" pumps with the best of them.
It hasn't been my style, if it ever was, for likely 25-years or more, and then only because I, LOL, had a 20-year old straight-as-a-die 6'6" long tall drink of water on the hook and I was trying desperately to get into his pants any which way I could. What we won't consider in the name of a good fuck. all in the cause of lust; simply amazing that, isn't it?
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
[Updated on: Tue, 03 August 2010 11:10]
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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... to the aforementioned trashy bits, I should add:
"A Place of Safety" to me represents all that is good about "Community", regardless of its' being Gay or otherwise.
You have established a venue, a Town Hall as it were, where views as disparate as it's membership in this Community may be aired without fear of censure or derision.
At the present time, we should feel blessed that we have had no one individual suffering immediate crisis banging on our doors; but, that has not always been the case, as likely only you and I, and a few "legacy" lurkers would know. Certainly not in the past three or four years; but that could well change in a heartbeat, and it is beholden upon this Community (and its' kind and gracious sponsor) to be here should that eventuality again arise and rear its' ugly head.
In the interim, yes, we may banter about, cajole, spread mirth and merriment every which way but loose; but, that too is simply artfice, smoke and mirrors, and every bit as real as World we must live in day-by-day, wherever our residence may be.
I do think that perhaps we could spend more time in conversation regarding health-care concerns, youth employment (or the likely prospect and increasingly more so every day, their potential unemployment), on topical LGBT subjects of regional and Worldwide interest (and I don't specifically mean the tragedies either, although they too have their place in our discussions), and perhaps Théâtre, Cinéma, Music and Literature which we have recently enjoyed, especially if they feature gay-themed or related subject matter. These are things we used to do here, and could do again, if we made a concerted effort; but, like you I have to wonder, "Would We?".
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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I am rather short lived on this forum, but I don't find it boring. The "Place of Safety" label allows all kinds of thought. Much of what I see is educational and informative, along with outrageous, egotistical and sometimes even sad.
I don't feel guilt ridden for saying something personal about events current and historical, I don't think it's my place to criticize the others here. I read something and I comment, sometimes I don't. The senseless death of a young gay man makes me furious and yet I don't always feel like ranting about it.
I am reminded of the iconic American film "Easy Rider" in which the two empathetic leading characters are shotgunned to death in the final moments of the film by a bunch of rednecks. The audience screamed at that business, I went away with the feeling that I ought to be out killing rednecks who threatened my chosen way of life. I didn't, I won't, rednecks are a way of life here, it would be like killing Christians.
I mourn the loss of innocence whenever we have a Matthew Shephard type of killing, but I also know that just ranting about it does no good. The inbred fear people have of the gay community in this country is astounding, and this is always something I want to share and discuss when I can. Being one of the reviled members of a gay community doesn't make me want to kill rednecks, but imagine how good it would feel, at least for the moment.
This forum is a blend of the harsh realities of the world and the soft humor we often use to combat those feelings. Perhaps a stressful day away from this forum begats a rant when we sit down to share, I do that. Personalities always clash and that is often the subject of the stories we share from the news.
From my standpoint this forum serves me well. I often see the anger building here and there, which makes me bend to my Libra qualities and toss out some levity, or something I hope will turn the corner. This is a diverse bunch, those of you from around the world give a different perspective to what I often find unexplained through other sources.
I understand that gay has a different meaning to each one here, and thus the rainbow flag is filled with various shades and colors. This is not the place to change the world, but it seems we do keep an eye on things and share what we want.
If Timmy is so bored then why doesn't he go back through the archives and pick out the top 100 threads and start a list, that way we will be sure not to repeat ourselves too much. It won't take long, Timmy, you might even get it done before the next Olympics ;-D
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
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timmy wrote:
> I'm getting bored. I see no practical use of this place. Everyone likes to post happy sweet things. We avoid the hard things, sweep them quietly under the carpet as if they were not there.
(snip)
> So why should I keep this open?
> Give me a solid reason.
I'm not sure that I can, at the moment. And that's something that considerably depresses me.
When I started coming here, about five years ago, I was struck by how open everyone was. Not always agreeing, not always quite as polite as they might have been, but with a general atmosphere where people felt safe enough to open up their areas of uncertainty and vulnerability in order to explore them.
That, I'm afraid, strikes me as no longer the case. I, for one, am much more reluctant to share anything deeply personal here, anything that if insensitively handled has the power to wound or damage me. In that sense, something that was unusual - possibly unique - no longer exists.
I suspect it reflects both your own development (to where you are happy to attend Pride, and are becoming I think more activist), and changes in the regular posters. Whatever the reason, I personally feel that it just can't work, is inherently impossible in fact, to combine an agressive campaigning stance rooted in certainty and a particular view of a gay "community" with the kind of deeply personal revelations and interactions that I used to value so much.
You asked on another thread for "no sniping". I hope that this can therefore be seen simply as a viewpoint: when Brody can happily post things like "Nor is common courtesy a given either. (despite the "netiquette" you post at the top), and "But I am NOT gonna compromise my beliefs as a Gay man just because you so called old fogeys don't like having your precious London's Club upset because a loutish member of the Press Corps is running about.", when he feels free to use the grossly-insulting word "Brit" despite requests not to, and when he has revealed almost nothing of his personal inner life or thoughts either in introductions to political reposts or otherwise, it's clear how - and perhaps why - there has been such a change here recently.
This is not a sweet happy post, and I'm probably not a sweet happy person. But neither am I a captive audience to be lectured at, and told I ought to do things (either explicitly or by implication) rather than engaged in a two-way discussion about what we can do, given each of our own circumstances, backgrounds and abilities.
My belief in diversity probably arose from being gay - but it's a deeper committment than just that. And I feel that this place is tending not to recognise or value the enormous diversity of experiences represented by the fascinating mix of people who drift through here nearly as much as it used to ... I guess to some extent we all share responsibility for that.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The sniping and any unpleasantness I'm dealing with. But we should all be above that anyway.
I've certainly developed and am comfortable allowing activism into my real life. In some small way I am paying back those who went before when I was not brave enough.
I find 'Brit' to be neutral, and more a display of ignorance than anything else. I can't spot the gross insult. I know you've mentioned this before, but I can't see even so. Maybe I am simply blind. I am an Englishman, but, with folk from across the pond, I expect cultural differences and forgetfulness. So many of them address me by my surname thinking it's a forename and then get upset when I use their surnames in return.
I'd like to see personal stuff from all folk here. I've tried to encourage it. But we've had folk who are difficult to get on with here before and we will do again. I think your last sentence hits the nail on the head. "I guess to some extent we all share responsibility for that."
When we face things that are difficult then we grow and become able to handle them. Brody is rough hewn, that is for sure. He has opinions strongly held and expressed, though we don't often see his own voice, or think we don't. So we must deal with that by dealing with ourselves first.
We tend to get what we deserve. The way we've behaved has created a sniping and back biting atmosphere. I'm not about to ban anyone, not about to ask anyone to leave. We, all of us, even the least of us, need to lead by example.
So, if we see someone behaving poorly we face that with militant politeness and deal with the behaviour with care, never the personality. We say what upsets us, but never attack the poster, and we say why we're upset.
What annoys me more than anything is that we allow things to polarise us into teams. I've seen the "what he said" mentality too often, even once is too often, to want to see it here. Lest you feel I am saying that you do this, I am not. I am generalising, replying to you because this is where I am replying, rather than, totally, to your post.
We need things to challenge us. You and I both know different levels of challenges in our lives and we know that meeting those challenges gives us the power to handle them.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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In the 10 or 12 years that A Place of Safety has been around the world has changed considerably, the gay community and the problems faced by gay kids in many areas doesn't even resemble what existed back then. That isn't to say that all the problems are gone from everywhere. In some places middle school and high school (12 to 18 y/o) kids can be out and proud at school, but in other places they still face ridicule, injury or even death for being gay. During the existence of A Place of Safety the greatest world wide changes have been in the areas of the internet and communications and the impact on A Place of Safety was doubled since it is both.
Is there a continuing need for internet forums such as this based upon your original vision? Considering the changes of the last 10 or so years it would not be surprising if the answer to that was “No”.
You say that forum posters avoid the hard things though I was under the impression that that is what Brody was trying to do here, introduce the “hard” topics for discussion. The fact is that the “hard” topics aren't the same everywhere nor for all age groups. What is an important item for discussion between teens is not the same as that for gays in their 20's and 30's; nor is what's important for those groups the same as for married gay men in their 50's to 70's.
NW quoted Brody from some earlier post as referring to APOS members as “old fogies” and the forum itself as a “precious London's Club” and, quite frankly, I have to agree with Brody. I am sure that this does not represent the “target audience” of your original vision.
I enjoy many of the stories posted on that part of the website and on most days visit the forum to see what is happening here. However, in answer to your question “So why should I keep this open?”, I have to agree with NW in that I can't give you a solid reason. Actually, the only reason to keep it open is because the forum fulfills a need within you.
JimB
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You have to look at the provenance of the word 'Brit' to understand why some people (including me) at best dislike the word and at the other end of the scale find it offensive.
There is a perfectly good word, namely 'British', noun and adjective, which is factual and neutral.
The word 'Brit' originated among Irish republicans to denote those British subjects (now citizens) who didn't reside in the Northern Ireland province of the United Kingdom. Therefore from the start the word was tainted.
Because it was clipped and sounded trendy it was adopted by Americans, particularly those who sympathised with Noraid whose funds were used to cause the untimely death of many innocent civilian and military personnel under the mistaken idea that the money was supporting 'freedom fighters'.
In ignorance the word was adopted and propogated by 'Sun' and 'Mirror' readers and again in ignorance sadly passed into everyday parlance.
Is 'Yank' an offensive word for an American? Americans are in the best position to judge that and I imagine some Southerners still find it so. I would hold that 'Brit' is a far worse designation than 'Yank'.
Hugs
Nigel
[Updated on: Tue, 03 August 2010 17:33]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I was asking why I should keep this open.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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JimB wrote:
> ...I am sure that this does not represent the “target audience” of your original vision.
Indeed it does not. The target audience is as it always has been, kids in pain and the adults they become, with problems they need to work through.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I saw that too. I was explaining the origin of the word 'Brit'.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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I just looked and find I've been posting here for three years and have written 1800 messages. Why on earth did I do all that?
I guess I wanted to talk to people who would listen and not condemn. I guess I found people here that I'd like to be friends with. I guess I wanted to help others in turn and I quite often tried to do that. I enjoyed the fact that I could get away with friendly teasing and sometimes I got teased back.
I didn't want to become part of a campaigning army as armies, particularly those marshalled in the service of a cause, have to be disciplined and have agreed objectives and never have room for wimps.
And I welcomed and was welcomed by the diversity. When JFR organised that meeting those who were there were half married and half single, half authors and half not, half 'out' to everyone and half not. We ate vegetarian, probably because half of us were vegetarian and I don't think a cross word was exchanged for the whole meeting.
If you want change, maybe because you or your needs have changed, maybe because the contributing group or its needs have changed or just maybe because the world about us has changed then I suppose you will change the site.
But please don't change it in my name: I'm not asking for change.
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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In the past 4 years or so we have succeeded in driving away all of the young people this place was intended to support.
Is that a good thing?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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If the young people have left is that part of the evolution?
I spent some time on a youth site (which shall remain nameless here) using an alias because I was researching a story. I said nothing to anyone that would get me in trouble, I was there to listen and observe. These were kids from 13 to 20 from all over the world and in time I revealed myself to several of them.
One of them was an English lad of 14 who said he realized I was older but since I was there to do no harm he let it go. I still chat with him several times a week, he is 17 now, gay and miserable. But that is because he is pressured by school and the small town where he lives. He would not be a candidate for A Place of Safety.
Many of these boys are of the emo persuasion, into Lady GaGa (gag gag)and doing poorly in school. But I played the silent type and listened to them talk in a language I doubt many of you would understand and you are English!
The generations must learn to respect one another, but nothing has changed except the image. We didn't listen to adults in my youth, this bunch is no different. I don't think you will find too many young folks becoming invloved in the forum, most of them come to the site to read and hopefully learn.
The political discussions, social discourses and references to things they would consider historical will attract but a few. But I would not object if you allowed the old foggies to remain and begin a youth forum that you would have to severely moderate.
I understand the urge to nurture the confused and painfully unaware youth both in the EU and around the world. I had some shocking and painful moments on that youth forum. The angst of broken relationships, the threats to cut themselves, the abuse they endured. It's all out there, I don't think we can all deal with that level of honesty.
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
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I'm coming late to this discussion because I have been without an Internet connection for the past 36 hours. I think that in the four threads that Timmy has started on this topic a lot of sage opinion has been given. I doubt that I have very much that I can add that would be truly worthwhile.
timmy wrote:
So why should I keep this open? Give me a solid reason.
This forum exists for the benefit of those who post here (and for the lurkers who do not post). If Timmy does not want it to serve these posters then he will close the forum. I hope he will not do so. The only reason I can give him is that this is a place that I like to come to. I'm sorry that I am not the kind of person that Timmy wants to see here, but I cannot be other than what I am. Either he accepts us as we are or, disappointed, he closes the forum. I have been visiting this forum since its inception. I can think of two or three posters whose abrasive attitude caused great dissension - so much so that two of them were banned.
I am in regular contact with a couple of youngsters who used to post here regularly and now do not. Their reason is the same as that suggested by Chris and Jim and others: their life is so different that there is nothing here for them. They are dismayed at "old fogeys crying about their lost loves and unfulfilled dreams." As one of them said, in his typical juicy way: "They should get a life!"
So, Timmy, this forum cannot be for the youngsters of today. If it can't exist for me and the likes of me then perhsps it should not be at all. And you know very well that I hope that you will think otherwise.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Timmy, do you think it was me?
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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No. I was clear to extend the time period beyond the time you declared. I know it was us, collectively. Each of us carries some individual blame, that , too, is certain.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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