A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
















You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Bomb blast and massacre in Norway
icon9.gif Bomb blast and massacre in Norway  [message #65999] Fri, 22 July 2011 20:19 Go to next message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



May I ask you to send your best thoughts and prayers to victims and their
families of today's bomb attack on government offices in Oslo and the massacre
at a Labour Party youth camp. The exact numbers of casualties and injured are
still not known but increasing. Seriously injured boys and girls are now being
transported to nearby hospitals, and the university hospital of Oslo is asking
for blood donors.

The present government of Norway has done more for gay people than all previous
governments, and I fear that ministers and civil servants who have been
fighting the good cause, are among today's victims.

Two good friends of mine work in office buildings affected by the blast, and
I was happy to receive a phone call confirming that they are safe and sound.
  • Attachment: oslo-bomb.jpg
    (Size: 13.84KB, Downloaded 454 times)
I'd only just become aware ..  [message #66001 is a reply to message #65999] Fri, 22 July 2011 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




... of this situation an hour ago when reviewing several news sites I regularly read; unfortunately, none of them of them seem to be able to shed zany light on why the attack happened at all, Thompson Reuters amongst them?

Can you help us understand the motivation?

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada

[Updated on: Fri, 22 July 2011 22:09]




"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
icon9.gif Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway  [message #66003 is a reply to message #65999] Fri, 22 July 2011 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Our news is full of mindless speculation and news generation, not reporting. Best estimates point to a local lunatic rather than a co-ordinated terror attack, not that the result is much different.

Takes the good wishes as read and keep us posted with real information, please



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway  [message #66004 is a reply to message #66003] Fri, 22 July 2011 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



The police have arrested an ethnic Norwegian on the small lake island Utoya, where a Labour Party youth camp takes place every summer. He was wearing a fake police uniform and was armed, and undetonated explosives were found in his car and also scattered around the area of the tiny island. The police know his identity and suspect him of being behind both the shooting spree and the bomb blast. No mention has been made of a motive.

The man being questioned was observed in Oslo at about the time of the explosion, carrying the same fake police uniform as at the youth camp, where he showed up an hour after the explosion. Some newspapers suggest that he may be part of a domestic militant right wing group, wanting to deal a blow to the 'leftist' Labour Party dominated government and the party's youth organisation.
Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway  [message #66005 is a reply to message #66003] Fri, 22 July 2011 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



The police still don't know whether he was alone or part of a terror group. He must, however, have been doing some good planning prior to the attacks, and may well be a lunatic, with too much experience with and access to explosives and weapons.
Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway  [message #66006 is a reply to message #66005] Fri, 22 July 2011 23:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



More is unlikely to happen tonight. You and your nation should sleep. There will be much insanity over this on TV tomorrow.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
icon4.gif Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway 80 Killed  [message #66007 is a reply to message #66005] Sat, 23 July 2011 01:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



(REUTERS) OSLO, NORWAY -- The 32-year-old Norwegian man who allegedly went on a shooting spree on the island of Utoya has been identified as Anders Behring Breivik, according to multiple reports.

The Daily Mail and Sky News were among those to report the suspect's name. According to witnesses, the gunman was dressed as a police officer and gunned down young people as they ran for their lives at a youth camp.

Police said Friday evening that they've linked the youth camp shooting and Oslo bombing. Breivik is believed to have acted alone.

Norwegian TV2 reports that Breivik belongs to "ring-wing circles" in Oslo. Swedish news site Expressen adds that he has been known to write to right-wing forums in Norway, is a self-described nationalist and has also written a number of posts critical of Islam.

A Twitter account for Breivik has surfaced, though it only has one post, this quote from philosopher John Stuart Mill: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests." The tweet was posted on July 17.

On a Facebook account that Norwegian media outlets have attributed to Breivik, he describes himself as having Christian, conservative views. He says he enjoys hunting, the games World of Warcraft and Modern Warfare 2, and lives in Oslo. He also lists political analysis and stock analysis as interests.

BREAKING: 2200ESTUSNY OSLO, NORWAY-- Police say at least 80 killed in shooting at Norway youth camp,marking a significant increase from earlier reports

[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 02:29]

Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway 80 Killed  [message #66009 is a reply to message #66007] Sat, 23 July 2011 05:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



We are waking up to horrifying news this morning. We have obviously got our own 'Oklahoma' bombing, but on the tiny lake island of Utøya the killer went many steps further. Nothing can describe yesterday's horrors, when more than 80 young people were killed in cold blood.

Mr. Behring Breivik is obviously a right-wing 'nationalistic' extremist, strongly opposed to the kind of multi-cultural society represented by today's government and its major partner, the Labour Party. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway 80 Killed  [message #66010 is a reply to message #66009] Sat, 23 July 2011 06:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



My heart goes out to your country, and to the parents of the kids who died, to those they loved and to those who love them still. And, of course it goes out in the same way regarding the adults.

I've no idea why it's worse when kids are killed or hurt, it ought to be the same as for adults, but it is worse.

There are times when a sentence on finding unassailable guilt, should be "Hand him to the mob" and this is one such time.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway 80 Killed  [message #66011 is a reply to message #66010] Sat, 23 July 2011 08:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



According to the police the number of killed at Utøya has risen to an incredible 84, at least.

Not implying that you disagree with me, Timmy:

What would happen to us if we succumbed to our killing instincts, which at times like today rise to the surface?

The most serious threat is fear itself. We must avoid imposing restrictions to our open democracy and must not allow ourselves to be forced into limiting transparency and freedom of expression, and the right to invite to dinner or to love who we want.

[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 08:23]

icon9.gif Re:Massacre in Norway Update  [message #66012 is a reply to message #66011] Sat, 23 July 2011 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



OSLO, NORWAY -- Norwegian police confirmed Saturday that the death toll from Friday's attacks has risen to 91 and also confirmed that they have arrested a suspect whom they described as a right-wing Christian fundamentalist.

In a news conference Saturday morning in Oslo, police confirmed that they had arrested Anders Behring Breivik, 32, on suspicion of orchestrating both the Oslo bombing and the youth-camp shooting rampage and had begun searching two apartments that he owns.

Breivik reportedly owns four properties including a farm on the outskirts of Oslo, allegedly to enable him to store legally a large amount of fertilizer.

Police would not comment on whether he acted alone but said no other arrests have been made. They said Breivik had no criminal record.

They would not speculate on his motives, but said, based own his own Twitter and Facebook accounts, he appeared to be a right-wing Christian fundamentalist.

Police say he was arrested by security forces at the Labor Party youth camp on the island of Utoya after the shootings. They said 84 people were killed on the island. At least seven were killed in the Oslo bombing.

Police Chief Oystein Maeland told reporters that they could not confirm the number of victims would stop at 91, adding that the attack had reached "catastrophic dimensions."

He said officers were still "looking in the water around the island for more victims."

Media reports say the gunman apparently used a handgun and a machine gun, and that police arrived at the island possibly 90 minutes after the shooting started. At midmorning Saturday, police were still searching the island for more bodies.

One wounded survivor, Adrian Pracon, described the gunman as "calm and controlled," shooting people who tried to escape the island by swimming to the mainland.

Pracon told BBC news that he saw two people approach the gunman, "and two seconds later they were both shot."

He said the gunman "looked like Nazi to me because of the hair ... and he was also very, very calm and controlled and sure about what he was doing."

Pracon described his attempt to escape. "We started running down to the water and people had already undressed and started swimming."

Pracon said he began swimming, but "after 150 meters ... I realized I wouldn't make it so I went back and saw him standing 10 meters from me shooting at the people who tried to swim over."

"He aimed the gun at me and I screamed at him 'No, please no.' I don't know if he listened to me."

Pracon said the gunman returned an hour later. "The shooting started and people were falling beside me, they were falling on top of me, falling injured into the water, so I just had to shield myself behind them and pray he wouldn't see me, and that's when he shot. I could feel his boots, I could feel the warmth of the barrel."

Others described being chased. "The man with the gun was running behind us, chasing us," said youth leader Lisa Marie Husby, who told BBC radio how she and 50 or 60 others ran to a cabin where she hid under a bed as the gunman shot through the door trying to get in.

When he went away, they heard more shooting: "I think I was under the bed for two to three hours, then we heard the helicopters and the police came."

Police said Breivik will face terrorism charges that carry a prison sentence of up to 21 years.

During a separate news conference, Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said he had been personally involved in the Labor Party camp during his youth, and praised the fact that participants were able to exchange strong political views freely and without fear.

He called it a "childhood paradise" that "was turned into hell." He said he had been scheduled to visit the island today to address the youths.

Stoltenberg told reporters that some members of government had lost their lives in the bombing, but he could not confirm their identities. "We have a picture of the victims, but it is too early to say," he said.

He said Norwegians should not let the tragedy lead them to change their open society.

"It's this quality of life that has been abused and attacked. We must work hard to protect this so we don't lose that quality. This is what we have to resist."

He said the death toll was the highest in a single day in Norway since World War II.

Stoltenberg added that he will convene government ministers later today to discuss how to handle the crisis. Soldiers have been deployed throughout Oslo to assist police and protect government institutions.

He would not speculate on the suspect's motives, but said right-wing extremism has not been a serious issue before.

"Compared to other countries, I would not say that we have a big problem with right-wing extremism in Norway," he said. "But we have had some groups and we have followed them before."

Aerial View Of Utoya Island

[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 13:18]

icon9.gif Re:Massacre in Norway- White House Releases Statement  [message #66013 is a reply to message #66012] Sat, 23 July 2011 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



WASHINGTON D. C. -- President Obama today extended his personal condolences to the people of Norway and said the terror attacks in Oslo are a reminder that the entire world must work together to prevent future attacks

"I wanted to personally extend my condolences to the people of Norway. And it's a reminder that the entire international community has a stake in preventing this kind of terror from occurring. And so we have to work cooperatively together both on intelligence and in terms of prevention of these kinds of horrible attacks.

I remember fondly my visit to Oslo and how warmly the people of Norway treated me. And so our hearts go out to them, and we'll provide any support we can to them as they investigate these occurrences."

Photo By Brody Levesque
Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway 80 Killed  [message #66014 is a reply to message #66011] Sat, 23 July 2011 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JimB is currently offline  JimB

Likes it here

Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349



Tor, my heart goes out to you and the fine people of Norway as you try to come to terms with this. The killing in cold blood of young people is beyond sick, and as you say horrifying.

What has the human race come to that we produce the kind of people who can do something like this? And no country seems to be immune from whatever malady it is that convinces people that killing of kids is the answer.

If you believe in a higher power pray, not only for the people of Norway that they may find comfort and peace but also for the Human Race that we survive this kind of madness.

JimB
Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway 80 Killed  [message #66015 is a reply to message #66014] Sat, 23 July 2011 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



Thanks, JimB, for your kind words.

I have talked to many people today, friends, family, neighbours, and everyone is deeply shocked and have great difficulties coming to terms with what happened yesterday, and the fact that Europe's first anti-muslim and anti-immigrant terrorist is a Norwegian.

Fortunately, the community of militant right wing nationalists in Norway, including militant Christians, is very small and apparently insignificant, but it takes only one person to create havoc.

The fact that the killer is a tall, blond Norwegian, gives extra food for thought and reflection. Since 9/11 discussions about terrorism has been centered on islamist groups like al-Qaeda, but what happened yesterday does not fit into those patterns or satisfy our prejudices. Which tells us, as you say, that no country or society is immune, and that extremism is dangerous regardless of colour or flavour, and every generation must be vigilant and ready to fight and defeat it. However, not by using their weapons, and not by allowing ourselves to be induced with the same hatred that our opponents are possessed by.

[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 19:06]

icon4.gif Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway 80 Killed  [message #66016 is a reply to message #66015] Sat, 23 July 2011 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy



Norway Tragedy Photo By Wolfgang Rattay Reuters
icon4.gif Killer believes his actions were "atrocious" but "necessary"  [message #66017 is a reply to message #66016] Sun, 24 July 2011 02:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



LONDON, UK -- In a report aired by the BBC, the suspect's lawyer said he admitted responsibility for the attacks.

He said his client believed his actions were "atrocious" but "necessary", adding that he would explain himself in court on Monday.

At least 98 people died when a gunman opened fire at the Utoeya camp on Friday, hours after a blast in the government quarter killed seven. Another four are missing on the island.

A 32-year-old Norwegian man was charged over both attacks, but police say it is possible another person was involved.
Re: Killer believes his actions were "atrocious" but "necessary"  [message #66020 is a reply to message #66017] Sun, 24 July 2011 05:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ray2x is currently offline  ray2x

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 429



My prayers are out to those who were killed, their relatives, friends and to fellow countryfolks of Norway. Craziness has no bounds.



Raymundo
Re: Bomb blast and massacre in Norway  [message #66021 is a reply to message #65999] Sun, 24 July 2011 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



As time passes I can still find no sensible thing to say. I just pictured myself in the place he attacked, seeing someone I loved killed in front of me. I'd like to think I would, somehow, have killed the man after that, but I doubt it. I would have hidden and I would have died, too.

I know there have been other mass murders. But this one, somehow, means something to me.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
“Violence creates violence ..."  [message #66022 is a reply to message #65999] Sun, 24 July 2011 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



Today has been a day of tears, mourning and reflection, and a mountain of flowers and candles has been piling up in front of Oslo’s cathedral since yesterday.



Friday's killer has admitted to both the bombing in central Oslo and the massacre at Utoya island, and the police still believe that he acted alone.

The young leader of the Labour Party's youth organisation, Eskil Pedersen, has earned a lot of respect during the last two days. He barely escaped the killer’s bullets and after having managed it to the mainland he immediately took charge of his organisation.



He is the organisation’s first openly gay elected leader, and fortunately, we have reached a point where his sexuality is regarded as irrelevant. Even the tabloid press don’t care or mind, and treat him with all the respect he deserves.

One of the camp leaders who had received a shot wound, told us this story from his hospital bed: During the shooting an eleven years old boy told him that his father had been shot dead. A few moments later he saw the gunman approaching the boy. The boy stopped and spoke to the killer, "Don’t kill me! You have done enough shooting. You have killed my dad and I am too young to die. Leave us alone!" For some inexplicable reason the killer turned away from the boy, and the camp leader later spotted the boy on the mainland. He had saved his own life.



What makes me proud is that there has been no cry for revenge, neither from the affected teenagers, their parents nor from politicians or the general public. Instead this comment by one of the girls barely surviving the ordeal sums up their reactions: "If one man can create that much hate, you can only imagine how much love we as a togetherness can create together. Violence creates violence, hate creates hate."

[Updated on: Sun, 24 July 2011 22:39]

Re: “Violence creates violence ..."  [message #66023 is a reply to message #66022] Sun, 24 July 2011 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kiwi is currently offline  kiwi

Likes it here
Location: New Zealand
Registered: August 2009
Messages: 317



Well done, Tor. Your attitude is admirable. Thanks for your on the spot views.

There are no words to describe the horror of all this. It just shows that nowhere is totally safe from the lunatics. It'd be, sort of, understandable if it happened in the US or other volatile countries - but Norway! Bloody Hell.

For what it's worth, the World's thoughts and prayers are with you all.

cheers



Commas matter - 'Party on Dudes' is not the same as 'Party on, Dudes'
Re: “Violence creates violence ..."  [message #66024 is a reply to message #66023] Mon, 25 July 2011 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



No, there are no words to describe what has happened, and the nightmare unfolding on the tiny island, where there is virtually nowhere to escape or hide, except trying to swim away. Local people risked their own lives when using small boats to pick up kids from the lake.

I believe that if I had been there and had been equipped with a gun, I would have aimed it at the killer, and would have had no regrets afterwards.

Today at 1 PM the killer will be presented before a judge and be put behind bars. He has asked for the court to be open to the public, and wants to wear one of his uniforms. (!)

This afternoon I heard that two of my former students were on the island, but are unhurt and now with their families.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 July 2011 12:36]

Re: “Violence creates violence ..."  [message #66025 is a reply to message #66023] Mon, 25 July 2011 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JimB is currently offline  JimB

Likes it here

Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349



kiwi wrote:
> Well done, Tor. Your attitude is admirable. Thanks for your on the spot views.
>
> There are no words to describe the horror of all this.
>
I could not have said it better and will not try.

Tor wrote:
> I believe that if I had been there and had been equipped with a gun, I would have aimed it at the killer, and would have had no regrets afterwards.
>
I don't know anyone who wouldn't have taken the same action, with no regrets.

I might add that much of the world is gaining more respect for the Norwegian people for the way they have responded to this horrible event. As the girl said, hate breeds hate and violence breeds more violence, but we have seen neither from the fine people of Norway.

JimB
“Tonight our streets are filled with love ...”  [message #66026 is a reply to message #66022] Mon, 25 July 2011 22:27 Go to previous message
kupuna is currently offline  kupuna

Really getting into it
Location: Norway
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 510



... Crown Prince Haakon told a crowd of nearly 150,000 people rallying outside Oslo’s City Hall this evening, sending out a message of defiance rather than retribution.



Similar arrangements took place in towns and cities all over the country, including my little home town, where almost 10,000 people took to the streets marching for democratic values and traditions.

I met one of the students I mentioned yesterday, who returned physically unharmed from the massacre at Utoeya. He is the sort of person whose sheer presence makes the sun shine and people smile on an overcast day. We exchanged hugs and there were tears, and I told him how happy I was to see him, but he had been through worse than hell, and his beautiful eyes were without their usual sparkle. Fortunately, he is surrounded by a caring family and great friends, and I hope and pray that they will keep holding him tight and help him over the hurdles that lie ahead.
Previous Topic: The Edge of Glory
Next Topic: The next US Presidential election
Goto Forum: