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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I was wondering, why do we see so many short term relationships in gay culture?
And why do so many get caught up in such grand emotional tourmoil when an epic love afair when breaking up after only a few weeks or months?
Is it possible to fall that much in love that quickly? Is it possible to become so upset over such a fleeting relationship?
And why do so many gay men just jump right back into the meat market and do it all over again, over and over and over?????
I was just wondering?
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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the scholar
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Toe is in the water |
Location: England
Registered: August 2002
Messages: 59
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Sorry I can't help with this one - I've been a relationship with the same wonderful man for nearly 20-years.
TS
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Put about either by gay men trapped in the hamster wheel, or by those who despise gay men is along the lines of:
"They search for the perfect partner. Even when with near perfection, the next shag may be better, so they move on. A conversation becomes a 'date', a date becomes a 'boyfriend', and a boyfriend becomes a 'long term partner'."
When you posted this you hit on the thinking behind my site.
Gay men deserve loving and committed relationships"
Having said this, there seem to be degrees of commitment.
Some seem to say "yes, I may play the field but only manual and oral. I reserve penetrative sex for my partner."
Why not just have a true affair? And be honest about it?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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It's not just a gay issue, folks...str8t people have the same thing going on, too.
Something about "modern" society, immediate gratification, and more choices and options available to more people...mobile populations...plus more factors....
Any other thoughts about this?
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I see the divorces and failure of family units.... True enough.
But is this casual attitude toward relationships apparent in str8 society as well?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I know absolutely, like in other situations, most of you will not agree with my views. This is unfortunate.
..........
While writing this post I have stopped myself, knowing once again that my views are not really welcome. I have erased most of it. I will leave you with the final thought.
..........
All of these things we do, are individual choices. We (meaning our gay community) are all different, and we all want to be included as equals without being judged to be "bad" of "evil" by straight society.
Should we not then lead by the example that we search for? If we judge each other, by our individual standards, aren't we commiting the same injustice we fight against?
We are a minority, if we divide ourselves we will never have the voice to be heard.
Choose your own moral path, live that. Do not judge your neighbor by standards you set. Allow him or her to live their lives. Love them for the positive things they bring. Focus on that.
All my love to ALL of you,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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the scholar
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Toe is in the water |
Location: England
Registered: August 2002
Messages: 59
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Kevin
I find it disturbing that you feel that your "views are not really welcome". You have as much right to an opinion and a view as anyone else and if people wish to disagree, then so be it, they have a right to theirs, too, but NO ONE and I mean NO ONE has a right to censor your view or to make you feel self-censorship is the only option.
Speak up - be heard - that's what democracy is all about.
TS
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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No Message Body
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I would have liked to hear your views
Mike
Friendship is the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person, having neither to weigh thoughts or measure words
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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in this thread we are discussing a phenomenon, an observation if you will....
I wasnt looking for any judgements nor was I trying to introduce a standard.
If we ever expect to understand ourselves we need.... no we MUST be free to interject our opinions... each and every one of us.... whenever we see or feel the need to speak them....
and that includes yours.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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You and I have had this conversation, haven't we? Your thoughts about allowing each person to find their own way of expressing their sexuality are extremely valid. You do yourself and us an injustice when you don't share your comments with everyone here. Say it, Kevvy.......we're listening.
smith
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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In my relative ignorance in this matter it seems to me that expectations are sometimes too high or too intense. One of the secrets of a good relationship is tolerance and when necessary putting the needs of the other before one's own. Too often we expect 100% agreement and misinterpret a difference as rejection.
Let me give two examples from this MB during the past couple of hours.
Kevin, I think I disagree with your case for 'moral relativism', but that does not mean that I love you or admire you any the less, that I don't want to be your friend. It means no more than that in this matter I disagree with you. (I say that I think that I disagree with you, Kevvy, because you do not fully explain your argument - for fear that it may be rejected. I hope that you will explain the case you want to make more fully - and not worry that I or anyone else will think any differently about you because of it.)
Ruggero, caro mio, why is timmy's justification of his decision about that story an indication of the end of a friendship? Is this not over-dramatization on your part? Is timmy to be our friend only when he agrees with us? It is a widely observed phenomenon of gayness (so I am told) that we tend to be passionate and to give expression to that passion very easily. Can we not accept that sometimes our reactions are passionate just because we are gay - and therefore we must be forgiving and understanding and not jump to drastic conclusions about the end of friendship and affection?
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You guys might not like the pandoras box you open when asking my real opinions. I have always told the truth here, always. I have spoken from my heart. Some issues like this one, may cause more trouble than it's worth. But here goes .....
Let me start by saying that many married guys (you know I care for each of you), might not be able to see this issue objectively after living a straight life for many years. If you disagree, say so. I won't be hurt, but remember I am not trying to hurt you either.
I do not agree with living a life that is not true. That being said, I too was once in the closet. I know that you are taught to be there and it is a very hard thing to unlearn.
Now for the meat and potatoes ...
Society tells young boys and girls what they should do as they grow up. They are given a road map if you will. Boys are told they need to bag a girl so to speak. Girls are told they should date and marry early in life. Even the first date is depicted in countless movies, ads and conversation that is widely accepted and approved of.
This just is not the case for a gay man (or woman for that matter). We don't talk about our first kiss with a boy early in our school years. It just does not happen that way.
Now we have a pro and a con for this situation. Lets start with the con:
We have no "road map" so to speak. We are left to flounder and many times end up in sexual situations we might not if we had guidance in our early developement. Some end up ignoring the feeling partially because we are afraid and do not know what to do. Others still find themselves in somewhat dangerous situations that threaten our very lives. These may sound extreem, but in one degree or another, these things are real.
Now for the "pro" and the meat if you will ....
Because we have no guide to how to proceed, many of us do find our way through all this. With a little help we all can find our own moral compass in this world. We each decide for ourselves (not as true for the married guys, as data would point out ... sorry guys) what we accept in our lives as right and wrong. I submit to each of you, that if you exclude the extreem, morals are personal comfort, morals are personal period.
We have an opportunity to shape our moral compass to fit ourselves and not dictated to by a society we agree or disagree with. I believe that for the most part people in general are good deep down. This means that the moral compass we will arive at will generally fit ourselves without hurting the general population around us. This morality can fit our lives like a glove. The straight world has this thrust upon them, wether societies mold fits their lives or not.
In a larger sense, some of the ideas that I have seen here sound more like they come from that mold. Don't get me wrong, this is not an indictment of the monogomous relationship, quite the contrary. Espousing that as an ideal is a great thing!!! However, I also see it as a barometer of judgement for some. Seeing your fellow gay men as deviant to some extent. "People in glass houses"? Some of us speak to this issue like it is the only way, I believe that of be totally false. It might be good for me, or some of you, but all of us? I think not. You might say you don't look down on those people that are somewhat promiscuous, but the undertone of some advice I see shows that to be contrary.
I am not saying people in general here are bad, not at all. But perhaps we bring our sense of morality to the table with a little dose of judgement.
I may not agree with people who go around having sex with people they don't know well, but I do try not to judge them as "bad". I try to be sennsitive to the sation they find themselves in life, and supportive of positive changes THEY might want to make.
I am by no means perfect and hold others in judgement myself, but I do try. I just don't want to be a guy who makes people feel bad about who they are or what they do. I had enough of that in my life already.
Thanks for listening.
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Very well stated, if not completely argued in all contexts, as Steve points out in his *post* below.
Take the time to more fully deal with this topic, and allow us to then either agree or disagree.
I, for one, would like to hear more!
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The observation was not whether or not short term relationships were "moral" or "immoral".
The observation prompted the question....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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No Message Body
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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I remember waaay back when I was in my twenties there was really only one thing on my mind, or rather, I thought with my head (but not the one on my shoulders). In other words, I tried to leave my mark where ever in the world I was, and that sex was the only end to any means.
Now that I am older (both not really wiser) I gaze from a totally different perspective, where emotion is the driving force, and not physical gratification.
What am I trying to say? I don't know (well, actually, I have a little idea). Maybe the youthful thoughts of living forever, and being bullet proof, it always happens to the other guy, do tend to fade with experience (I won't say maturity or I will have to pay a royalty to AARP).
Okay, Charlie. Stop rambling now.
Hugs, Charlie
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Living forever......being bullet proof...... it happens to the other guy.
Depends on what kid you're talking to, I guess. There are an awful lot of kids today who duck and cover and wonder how old they will actually get to be before it's taken away.
Thanks for the hug, Charlie
smith
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I would love the opportunity to hear their thoughts and, perhaps, provide a different perspective for them. If nothing else, provide a hand to grab on to when events appear to be overwhelming their world.
Hugs, Charlie
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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You know, sometimes what you seek is right in front of you. Just talk, Charlie.
smith
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When you are in the Sea and going down for the third time, a well placed buoy of hope is welcome. I am glad that thera re many here who are willing to be a buoy for guys like me and others who sometimes flounder. 
Thanx Charlie for offering to be one.
People have a habit of changing your direction through life
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Re: Relationships....... 
Re: Geez I almost hate to deal with this topic because ..... 
