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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Why Brits don't get Trump
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Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76809] Wed, 29 April 2020 14:21 Go to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

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Location: Somerset
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Messages: 54



The following found its way into my inbox, and I wanted to share it as it encapsulates - exactly - how I feel and why I feel it.

Someone on Quora asked 'Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?'

Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:

'Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor, Mr. Obama, was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump's limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever. I don't say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it's a fact. He doesn't even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn't just talk in crude, witless insults, he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness. There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It's all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don't. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we generally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He's not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He's more a fat, white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege. And worse he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, until he is amongst bullies when he suddenly transforms into a snivelling side-kick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff - the Queensberry rules of basic decency - and he breaks them all. He punches downwards - which a gentleman should, would, could, never do, and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless - and he kicks them when they are down. So the fact that a significant minority - perhaps a third - of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy' is a matter of confusion and no little distress to British people given that:
  • Americans are supposed to be nicer than us - and mostly are
  • You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty hard to miss. After all, it's impossible to read a single tweet or hear him speak a sentence or two without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal; even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows, there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty ones too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws, he would make a Trump. And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big handfuls of hair and scream in anguish: 'My God...what...have...I...created?'

If being a twat was a TV show, Trump wouild be the boxed set'
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76810 is a reply to message #76809] Wed, 29 April 2020 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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I think the thing is that what we do not 'get' is why and how he fooled the populace in the USA into making him their president. He was elected fair and square. The popular vote is an irrelevance.

I understand respecting the role of POTUS, but the current incumbent is to be vilified on all possible occasions. And yet he remains worshipped and in office.

The GOP, for all its many faults, is, surely, better than that.

Then I look at the forthcoming US election and ask as I did at the last one, "Is that the best you have?"

I get Trump.

What I do not get is how the cult of Personality has not brought him to his cringing and cowardly knees. He is truly a nonentity.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 April 2020 10:55]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76811 is a reply to message #76810] Wed, 29 April 2020 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

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...apologies, the headline should have said  'Why Brits don't get Trump's popularity'...not sure what happened there - but I clearly didn't check carefully enough

[Updated on: Wed, 29 April 2020 15:48]

Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76812 is a reply to message #76811] Wed, 29 April 2020 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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I wonder if that is a tech limitation of the forum with an apostrophe. Pity Trump can't be limited with anapostrophe



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76813 is a reply to message #76809] Wed, 29 April 2020 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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Most Trump supporters are blue collar or middle class, and there is a lot of anger broadly placed in the US about economic inequity, the fact that middle class income has stagnated for thirty years, etc. On top of that is his base, made up mainly of angry and bitter white Evangelical Christians who feel they are losing their place of privilege.
 
A recent study showed not just partisan polarization that we all are aware of, but this same group are mainly Republicans and their resentment against blacks has increased by 50% in the last few years. You can imagine that same level of resentment growth equally applies to Hispanics and LGBTQ people had they been included in the study!
 
The economic inequality argument, to me, weakens dramatically when the fact is that Trump's two tax bills solidified that most of the wealth went to the top 1 or 2%!
 
All I can offer after all of that is a little quip I came across yesterday that perfectly illustrates both the Trump supporter and addresses the level of being flummoxed that Timmy stated:
 
George Washington: I cannot tell a lie!
 
Donald Trump: I cannot tell the truth!
 
Trump Voter: I cannot tell the difference!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5114&private=0




Bensiamin
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76814 is a reply to message #76810] Wed, 29 April 2020 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"Quote:"
timmy wrote on Wed, 29 April 2020 08:14I think the thing is that what we do not 'get' is why and how he fooled the populace in the USA into making him their president. He was elected fair and square. The popular vote is an irrelevance.[/font-family][/font-size]

--Perhaps what people don't understand is the hold that the "mythology" has upon the christian right. 45 is their man. He's republican, they even believed, following his "two corinthians" appearance at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, that he's a christian. Add to that the phenomenon of christian fiction here in the USA that's developed exponentially over the last 40 years, with it's apocalyptic, confrontational persecuted christian vs the godless liberals, gays, atheists, African Americans, Hispanics, Eastern Religions, and Muslims, not to mention the supernatural evil powers in high places, and you've produced a couple generations of mindless christian Gen-Xers, millennials, etc., whose worldview is formed, not by societal norms, or by adherence to Biblical principles, but by the model of living under persecution that is portrayed within the shelter of their christian fiction. Don't forget their battlecry in opposition to legal same sex unions here in the US. "It will destroy marriage" aka persecution.

These people really believe this shit. I've had many carbon copy conversation with various relatives and others over the last half-dozen years, who are now supporters of the trump religion that demonstrate the truth of what I say... repeatedly. They're not thinking. They're robots to the cause. Frankly I think Rigby Taylor's stories as they continue to develop here on IOMFATS demostrate what's happening extremity well. We've now got droves of them with AK-47's demonstrating in front of legislative buildings and governor's mansions. These people really ARE this crazy. Trump is their savior, having replaced Jesus. Literally.

Having said that, I hold some fairly high hopes that this November will see their hopes crushed to smithereens with 45 losing the election. I am somewhat apprehensive of what may happen when the man loses the election and the AK-47 toting thugs decide to take to the street. If they decide to take to the street. At this point it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 April 2020 20:55]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76816 is a reply to message #76811] Wed, 29 April 2020 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

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"cm wrote on Wed, 29 April 2020 09:46"
...apologies, the headline should have said  'Why Brits don't get Trump's popularity'...not sure what happened there - but I clearly didn't check carefully enough

--

Well, I would think either version is probably equally correct (and for what it's worth, a lot of us Americans don't get Trump - or his popularity - either).
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76818 is a reply to message #76816] Thu, 30 April 2020 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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And the alternative is ... Biden??
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76820 is a reply to message #76818] Thu, 30 April 2020 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"The Composer wrote on Thu, 30 April 2020 10:35"
And the alternative is ... Biden??

--

As I said: "Then I look at the forthcoming US election and ask as I did at the last one, "Is that the best you have?""

[Updated on: Thu, 30 April 2020 10:54]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76823 is a reply to message #76820] Thu, 30 April 2020 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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To illustrate Teddy's comments about those with crazy religious views, how they constitute much of Trump's base, and in addition to the inanity of it all...the degree of political power they are now able to weild unde this administration, consider this.  Only in America!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5115&private=0

[Updated on: Thu, 30 April 2020 18:08]




Bensiamin
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76826 is a reply to message #76820] Sun, 03 May 2020 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

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"timmy wrote on Thu, 30 April 2020 03:57"

"The Composer wrote on Thu, 30 April 2020 10:35"
And the alternative is ... Biden??

--

As I said: "Then I look at the forthcoming US election and ask as I did at the last one, "Is that the best you have?""

--

Sometimes I've felt the same way.  All these people in the U.S. who are supposed to be either a Republican or Democrat (since they're supposed to be the main 2 U.S.he same  political parties by far), and yet we keep getting the same kinds of weird...well, nutcases, to be very polite (although I'm not sure just why I'm being polite towards these people), and it's on both sides.  There are other people running with other parties in the U.S. (collectively referred to as "Third Parties"), but who will never have much of a chance of even being in serious contention, much less winning.  The Libertarian Party was the only other party besides the Democratic and Republican Parties to be on the ballots of all 50 states and DC in the 2016 election, and most other parties are not on nearly enough state/DC ballots to even come close to getting the needed amount of electoral votes to be elected president, even if they won in every state/DC that they were running in.   (One can click and read here for a list of all the third party candidates in the 2016 election; you'll only need to look at the "Contents" at the top of the article and scan through the #2 section - "Candidates" - to see everyone, though of course you can go down further into the article for anyone who wants more specifics.)

I personally think that about the only way a third party candidate could have a shot at the U.S. presidency any time soon would be if all the third parties in the U.S. teamed up (at least on the national level) to collectively nominate a single candidate (a list of third parties in the U.S. can be found here, with links to specific articles on them, including a link to their respective official website).
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76834 is a reply to message #76820] Mon, 04 May 2020 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"timmy wrote on Thu, 30 April 2020 02:57"

"The Composer wrote on Thu, 30 April 2020 10:35"
And the alternative is ... Biden??

--

As I said: "Then I look at the forthcoming US election and ask as I did at the last one, "Is that the best you have?""

--
It is a good point, and pretty much spot on, but looking at it from nearly any perspective outside of the orange baboon and his sycophants and supporters, even Biden is leages above what we have now. And no, he's not the best we have, but he's the best we've got available and electable at this point in the race. Voting third party at this point for someone else will only serve to get the current jackass re-elected.




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76844 is a reply to message #76826] Tue, 05 May 2020 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
American_Alex   United States

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"Mark wrote on Sun, 03 May 2020 09:48"
........

I personally think that about the only way a third party candidate could have a shot at the U.S. presidency any time soon would be if all the third parties in the U.S. teamed up (at least on the national level) to collectively nominate a single candidate (a list of third parties in the U.S. can be found here, with links to specific articles on them, including a link to their respective official website).

--

Will never happen. Too many 3rd parties are 'lunatic fringe' groups, with no shared interests. There was a time (in the 1850's) when 1 major party dissolved, with most of the members joining a new political party. But that happened mostly because of regional differences about slavery fractured the Whigs into northern and southern camps. I don't see any social issues nearly that divisive in today's politics.



"Able was I ere I saw Elba"
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76846 is a reply to message #76844] Wed, 06 May 2020 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Talo Segura is currently offline  Talo Segura   France

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"American_Alex wrote on Tue, 05 May 2020 16:34"

Quote:
 I don't see any social issues nearly that divisive in today's politics.


--
The right to health care, the right to bear arms and kill people, capitalism at the expense of people and the planet, racism, immigration and exploitation of foreign workers...

I see lots of social issues that are very divisive. In fact, some of them split the country in two, exactly as did slavery.
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76847 is a reply to message #76834] Wed, 06 May 2020 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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He'd better pick a damn good VP, for when he becomes mentally incapacitated.
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76849 is a reply to message #76847] Wed, 06 May 2020 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"The Composer wrote on Wed, 06 May 2020 03:04"
He'd better pick a damn good VP, for when he becomes mentally incapacitated.

--
I see him in the same light in that regard as Ronald Reagan was in his second term, i.e., increacingly a propped up dotard.
 



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76852 is a reply to message #76849] Thu, 07 May 2020 01:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Camy is currently offline  Camy   United Kingdom

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Are the Democrats now obliged to put Biden forward? Cuomo or Fauci would make much better candidates.



"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats." - Albert Schweitzer

It's like Mad Max out here: guys doing guys, girls doing girls, girls turning into guys and doing girls that used to do girls and guys!
- from Alex Truelove
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76854 is a reply to message #76846] Thu, 07 May 2020 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
American_Alex   United States

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"Talo Segura wrote on Wed, 06 May 2020 02:56"

"American_Alex wrote on Tue, 05 May 2020 16:34"

"Quote:"
 I don't see any social issues nearly that divisive in today's politics.


--
The right to health care, the right to bear arms and kill people, capitalism at the expense of people and the planet, racism, immigration and exploitation of foreign workers...

I see lots of social issues that are very divisive. In fact, some of them split the country in two, exactly as did slavery.

--

With all due respect, Talo, you are not American, so you don't see what is happening here. Health care is not, and will not be a factor to create that sort of political division. People don't look beyond 1 month in the future, or past the amount of taxes taken from their paychecks. The occasional financial ruin of a single short-sighted person does not create systemic division the way that the complete ruin of entire states did. Climatic changes likewise have yet to affect huge swaths of the population, and racism has been an ingrained component of the American psyche for centuries.

What could motivate rebellion would need to include widespread issues like starvation or total financial ruin. We may get there before long, but not in this election cycle.

"Camy wrote on Wed, 06 May 2020 21:46"
Are the Democrats now obliged to put Biden forward? Cuomo or Fauci would make much better candidates.

--

As of right now, the Democratic Party IS obliged to nominate Biden. Only a personal catastrophe in Biden's life would change that. The electorate has spoken; time to get behind the nominee.

I'm a bit ambivalent about Andrew Cuomo (even though he's my governor, and I've voted for him twice) because he is prone to 'grandstanding'. Having said that, he would do poorly in national politics, as would any NE liberal Democrat, especially one who is obviously Italian AND Catholic (see my previous comment about American racism...). Governors from NY (aside from Franklin Roosevelt) do poorly in presidential races; Al Smith lost to Hoover in 1928, Dewey lost twice, and guys like Rockefeller and Pataki were never even able to get their party's nominations. 

As to Fauci, well, he's NOT a politician. Also, he's Italian, from the NE, and Catholic as well.....



"Able was I ere I saw Elba"
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76855 is a reply to message #76854] Thu, 07 May 2020 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"American_Alex wrote on Thu, 07 May 2020 05:57"

"Talo Segura wrote on Wed, 06 May 2020 02:56"

"American_Alex wrote on Tue, 05 May 2020 16:34"

"Quote:"
 I don't see any social issues nearly that divisive in today's politics.


--
The right to health care, the right to bear arms and kill people, capitalism at the expense of people and the planet, racism, immigration and exploitation of foreign workers...

I see lots of social issues that are very divisive. In fact, some of them split the country in two, exactly as did slavery.

--

With all due respect, Talo, you are not American, so you don't see what is happening here...



Talo may not be but I am, and I happen to agree with him. 



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76857 is a reply to message #76854] Thu, 07 May 2020 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"American_Alex wrote on Thu, 07 May 2020 13:57"

With all due respect,

--

Regrettably this means "I have no respect for the person I am faking my respect for, but will pretend I respect them so that I can tell them bluntly that I consider their arguments to be trash" and is exceedingly rude.

I have spoken to several people about this type of rudeness in the past. All of those have either realised and stopped using this unpleasant style of addressing others, sometimes even apologising, or have gone from here. I am content with either option. Those who choose to go from here have their decision to leave enforced.

Please see also Non-apology apology

Disagreement is fine. Rudeness is not, even when in fundamental disagreement.

[Updated on: Fri, 08 May 2020 15:33]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76859 is a reply to message #76846] Fri, 08 May 2020 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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'capitalism'

Capitalism and democracy have something in common: they are better than anything else on offer.
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76860 is a reply to message #76854] Fri, 08 May 2020 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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Kennedy was catholic. And Irish.
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76861 is a reply to message #76857] Fri, 08 May 2020 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
American_Alex   United States

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Messages: 98



"timmy wrote on Thu, 07 May 2020 17:37"

"American_Alex wrote on Thu, 07 May 2020 13:57"

With all due respect,

--

Regrettably this means "I have no respect for the person I am faking my respect for, but will pretend I respect them so that I can tell them bluntly that I consider their arguments to be trash" and is exceedingly rude.

I have spoken to several people about this type of rudeness in the past. All of those have either realised and stopped using this unpleasant style of addressing others, sometimes even apologising, or have gone from here. I am content with either option. Those who choose to go from here have their decision to leave enforced.

Please see also Non-apology apology

Disagreement is fine. Rudeness is not, even when in fundamental dagreement.




--

I'm sorry if you felt I was rude, but we do have an interntional audience here, and I find it extremely annoying when somebody is telling people what is happening inside my own country when, in fact, they are not even a resident. It's stuff like this that everybody complains about "Russian trolls" doing, yet when somebody does the same thing, albeit with a veneer of 'seriousness', suddenly it's not a claim to be questioned. It's because of such commonplace acceptance of casual falacy that demagogary flourishes. 

For the record: To date, there have been zero 'widespread' protests demanding 'socialized' or even 'single payer' health care. Your average police shooting brings out 3-4 times as many protesters as does any health care reform protest. Maybe it should, maybe it will, but it ain't happening yet, no matter how much you believe (or wnat to believe) it is. I live here; I know. So sue me.



"Able was I ere I saw Elba"
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76862 is a reply to message #76861] Fri, 08 May 2020 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"American_Alex wrote on Fri, 08 May 2020 14:21"

I'm sorry if you felt I was rude, 

--
That is not acceptable. See again the wikipedia article on a Non-apology apology. Please think very carefully about your behaviour here.

I have no difficulty with your opinions, strongly held and firmly expressed, whether I agree with them or not. I am sure others feel the same way. My issue is your behaviour which presents the appearance of being calcuated to demean or diminish others. That behaviour prevents your opinions from being heard. It is also starting to express very clearly that you are making a conscious choice to leave here.

[Updated on: Fri, 08 May 2020 14:34]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76863 is a reply to message #76862] Sat, 09 May 2020 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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I have sent American Alex what I hope is a pleasing private message to receive. Such was my intent when I wrote it and when I re-read it before sending.

I think we can move on and now discuss the thoughts in this thread



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76866 is a reply to message #76863] Sat, 09 May 2020 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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Looking back at the original posit of this post, "Why Brits don'tn get Trump," I'm not sure it is accurate. I've come to discover that my Canadian friends "get" trump (IMHO, he doesn't deserve the respect of upper case lettering on his name) a whole lot better than much of America. I suspect that is the case with much of the world population, including Brits.



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76924 is a reply to message #76809] Wed, 27 May 2020 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inventodoc   United States

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From America, this has been a most interesting and amusing thread to read.  It is always great to see perspectives of those in other cultures.   I always try to understand the perspective of others; especially those whom I disagree with.   There must be some reason why half of the American voting population chose him?  I can tell you it isn't due to the tired tropes of "angry hillbillies" and "racists in big pickups".  

Those who voted for him in 2016 are probably even more likely to repeat their vote, so why? There must be something positive he is doing?  So far no one has identified any of those. Here are some of his policies:

Identification w/ need to restore the working class & domestic manufacturing, reduction of government regulations, lower income taxation for individuals and businesses, pro small-business & entrepreneurial individual, desire to extricate from endless wars abroad, foreign policy based on concrete US interests, rejection of globalism and global governance, international trade on fair & equitable terms, securing borders from unapproved and unknown peoples, US energy independence and energy dominance, pro family policies for families w/ children, restoration of education decisions to local level, pro-religious freedom economic revitalization of ghettos, free market health care reforms, reform of military, establishing human presence in space, establishing military presence in space, containment of Iranian & Chinese influence & aggression, strong alliances w/ countries of English-speaking peoples, pro-Brexit (pro European Nations but anti-EU), competent emergency management responses, etc...

Agree or disagree, you can see that many Americans are likely to support these aformentioned policies.  Some of these policies do not work in favor of European interests, though Americans are less concerned about that.

As for personality, he sure is a character.   He offends many people.  In the minds of his voters, they very much like the fact that he offends exactly the right kind of people - those who have been looking down on them as unimportant, disposable or deplorable.  In 2016, they felt their political leaders were failing them despite their sophisticated style and rhetoric and that their Government was prioritizing other interests over them and taking down a path towards a dimmer future and they demanded a change in course.

I hope this explanation provides some insight.



---------------------------
Inventodoc
Peace & Love to you
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76930 is a reply to message #76924] Wed, 27 May 2020 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"inventodoc wrote on Wed, 27 May 2020 08:38"

As for personality, he sure is a character.   He offends many people.  In the minds of his voters, they very much like the fact that he offends exactly the right kind of people - those who have been looking down on them as unimportant, disposable or deplorable.  In 2016, they felt their political leaders were failing them despite their sophisticated style and rhetoric and that their Government was prioritizing other interests over them and taking down a path towards a dimmer future and they demanded a change in course.


--
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."~John Kenneth Galbraith

[Updated on: Wed, 27 May 2020 18:32]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76933 is a reply to message #76930] Wed, 27 May 2020 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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IN case you missed it, in the past couple of hours, on May 27, 2020, the United States passed the milestone of 100,000 COVID-19 deaths from the pandemic.

Remember the guy who said it was a HOAX, who said it would GO AWAY LIKE THE FLU, who ignored an intelligence briefing about it in January, who had to be forced into announcing social distancing...and then overturned that to rush to reopen the economy?

What shall we do to celebrate? Take a dose of hydroxychloroquine? Maybe gargle some bleach?



Bensiamin
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76934 is a reply to message #76933] Wed, 27 May 2020 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"Bensiamin wrote on Wed, 27 May 2020 23:25"
IN case you missed it, in the past couple of hours, on May 27, 2020, the United States passed the milestone of 100,000 COVID-19 deaths from the pandemic.

Remember the guy who said it was a HOAX, who said it would GO AWAY LIKE THE FLU, who ignored an intelligence briefing about it in January, who had to be forced into announcing social distancing...and then overturned that to rush to reopen the economy?

What shall we do to celebrate? Take a dose of hydroxychloroquine? Maybe gargle some bleach?

--
You thnk the USA has trouble? Our fuckwit puppet prime minister Johnson and his puppeteer the gobshite Cummings  are worse. Johnson is starting to make Trump look like a statesman and a national leader.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76935 is a reply to message #76934] Thu, 28 May 2020 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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Somehow I failed to attach and/or upload the following image in my last post, which was supposed to provide a form of sardonic humor for the occasion!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5120&private=0

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2020 01:00]




Bensiamin
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76936 is a reply to message #76924] Thu, 28 May 2020 05:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Talo Segura is currently offline  Talo Segura   France

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"inventodoc wrote on Wed, 27 May 2020 17:38"
 There must be some reason why half of the American voting population chose him?  

--
inventodoc makes a good point, one which does not only apply to voting for Donald Trump. Why did half the country vote for him? I believe it is all about fantasy, if you create an image of something people can relate to and sympathise with, you are more than halfway towards getting their support. America is the land of fantasy and Trump is the culmination of a popular fantasy image. What does that mean? It means he (Trump) will represent things like American values, this he will reinforce by attacking those whom he regards as threatening those values, whether they are or not is immaterial. In fact , those American values are immaterial, just a means of gaining and keeping power. Good American folk believe Trump stands up for them, but he doesn't, he is only about himself and to maintain his position as leader he will go to any lengths, which is a little dangerous for the rest of us. Half the people don't see this, half the people do not look much further than their nose. Half the people are not infected, unemployed, in need of medical aid, but are all right and don't want to give a cent of their hard earned dollars to anyone. Why should they? Why should they care about pollution, it doesn't affect them? The folks that are ill, if that really exists, will be fine, everything will be, just like the President tells them. 

Fantasy, what he tells them is fantasy, but half the people love fantasy, they were brought up on it, movies and TV, religion, it's the American way of life. Which is why half the people voted Trump. I would like to say "good luck to them," but unfortunately for the rest of us, their good fortune and success is killing us! God bless America.

Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76937 is a reply to message #76930] Thu, 28 May 2020 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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""The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."~John Kenneth Galbraith"

I trhink that's what's call 'an appeal to authority'.
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76938 is a reply to message #76937] Thu, 28 May 2020 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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An article well worth the read, in light of the current conversation and world events. 

"How do we deal with a person whose core impulse in every part of his life is to deny, deceive, deflect, disparage, and double-down every time he is challenged?And what precicely is the danger such a person poses if he also happens to be the leader of the free world...?"

Perhaps it's a only local malfunction on my machine, but if you can't get the link below to work refresh the page after you get the error and it should load. 

https://gen.medium.com/the-psychopath-in-chief-aa10ab2165d9

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2020 19:32]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76939 is a reply to message #76938] Thu, 28 May 2020 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Geron Kees is currently offline  Geron Kees   Italy

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Location: USA
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Messages: 81



"Teddy wrote on Thu, 28 May 2020 19:25"
An article well worth the read, in light of the current conversation and world events. 

"How do we deal with a person whose core impulse in every part of his life is to deny, deceive, deflect, disparage, and double-down every time he is challenged?And what precicely is the danger such a person poses if he also happens to be the leader of the free world...?"

Perhaps it's a only local malfunction on my machine, but if you can't get the link below to work refresh the page after you get the error and it should load. 

https://gen.medium.com/the-psychopath-in-chief-aa10ab2165d9



--It's an excellent article. But what is sad about it is that I didn't even need to read it to sense the truth of it. I wasn't born in a barn, or yesterday. I have seen this about Donald Trump since the first day, long before he became the president. He doesn't even attempt to hide the way he is, and is even amused when people take note of it. He intends to go down in history one way or the other, as conquering hero or despised despot. It's all the same to him.

We have split as a nation into those groups that see Trump as saying something they want to have put out there, and who are willing to ignore his negative traits in order to get those things said, and those that see the incredible danger of what he says and the way he says it. And, his actions speak much louder than his words. But there have been, and always will be, smoke and mirrors in dealing with Trump. That comes down even to the numbers he says support him, which is more fiction than fact. It's false to say that 'half the nation' voted for Trump in 2016. That is NOT TRUE.

Half of those that cast ballots in 2016 voted for Trump. According to the US Elections Project's count, only about 56.9 percent of the voting-eligible public cast ballots in 2016. 43.1 percent of voters DID NOT VOTE. Many considered Clinton a shoe-in, and many just didn't care at all who won, seeing neither candidate as appealing. But in the end, each candidate got about 27 percent of what could have been the total US vote if everyone had turned out. Voter turnout has not been higher than 60.7 percent since 2004. The turnout in 2016 was the lowest since 2000.

Even pushing a maximum effort in 2016, the Republican Party could not motivate more than one-quarter of American voters to act for their cause. The Democrat's lackidaisical response it what put Trump into office. But he surely cannot count on that happening again.

In the period since Trump was elected, he has made it perfectly clear to the people of our country that his base supporters are everything and that the rest of us are 'the enemy'. He takes every opportunity he can to denigrate and alienate Democrats, and any that speak out against him or do not support him. If you think people are not aware of this, think again. As far as Trump's base goes, THERE ARE A LOT MORE OF US THAN THERE ARE OF THEM.

What has happened during the Trump administration is that a LOT more people now care about voting. A lot more people care about where things are going with our country. A lot more people than ever before are angry and unhappy. The turnout in November, even with the virus threat, may set new records. If anyone out in the world really believes that what happened in 2016 is proof of what's on the American mind, look again come November. If you think the majority of people here like the way this country has been going under Trump, preprare for a revelation.


Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76940 is a reply to message #76936] Thu, 28 May 2020 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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Talo: Well stated, especially when you said, "Good American folk believe Trump stands up for them, but he doesn't, he is only about himself and to maintain his position as leader he will go to any lengths, which is a little dangerous for the rest of us. Half the people don't see this, half the people do not look much further than their nose."

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5122&private=0

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2020 21:54]




Bensiamin
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #76941 is a reply to message #76939] Thu, 28 May 2020 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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Geron: I feel as you do, and hope your practical optimism is well placed. You're right: most voters didn't even vote. On top of that, the most surprised person in America when Trump won was Trump!

Now, though, after three years "in power," and the increasing irrational move toward authoritarianism, we can count on every dirty trick in the book. He's trying to slap controls on social media today because two days ago Twitter put a fact check notice on his tweet that vote by mail was replete with fraud!

The nagging question in my mind is what the US military will do come January, when if he loses, he refuses to leave because the election was rigged!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5123&private=0

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2020 21:58]




Bensiamin
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #77002 is a reply to message #76941] Sat, 06 June 2020 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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What has made most Americans sick at heart for over two years, and is now slowly beginning to turn into a dawning realization among Republicans and even (believe it or not!) among a small percentage of Trump supporters, was perfectly summed up in an Op-Ed piece in today's New York Times. It's written by Bret Stephens, a traditional conservaitve, who used to write for the conservative stanchion, The Wall Street Journal. It not only summarizes Trump and the last few months, but gets at the core of the malaise he has brought about with its by-line: With Malice Towards All; With Charity For None. It is an insightful and deep analysis of leadership gone wrong.

You can read the piece by clicking here.

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5136&private=0

[Updated on: Sat, 06 June 2020 15:08]




Bensiamin
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #77071 is a reply to message #77002] Mon, 15 June 2020 02:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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Here's something to help Brits get Trump, fresh from the newest commentator on All Things Trump, Mrs. Betty Bowers!

Don't miss the line about the "Wizard of Oz Trifecta!"

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5141&private=0

Watch the YouTube video by clicking here.

[Updated on: Mon, 15 June 2020 02:14]




Bensiamin
Re: Why Brits don't get Trump  [message #77103 is a reply to message #77071] Mon, 22 June 2020 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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A reminder that this Forum string began when c_m created it with the quote from the articulate and witty writer Nate White, who started by saying: "'Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor, Mr. Obama, was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump's limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief."

Besides condemnaitoin of Trump and his characteristics, the commentary was about what he lacked, and was done with wonderfully British wit (it's worth a re-read if you've forgotten). 

In an example of how this wit is alive and well across the Commonwealth, a friend sent me this image from Australia. Even if you're not a Christian, it doesn't get much more witty or ironic than this!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5142&private=0

[Updated on: Mon, 22 June 2020 14:37]




Bensiamin
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