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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > Literary Merit > Story words that just don't do it for me
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76903 is a reply to message #76902] Mon, 18 May 2020 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"The Composer wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 04:41"
" one author on another site who does"

Do tell.

--
No, I publiclly criticized an author from another site here one time for an exceedingly bad ending to a story where all the main charactes got run over and killed by a train rather than any sort of reconcilliation taking place. It truly was a bad story. No one here criticized me for calling the guy out, but still, I resolved never to name names when critisizing like that again. So....

[Updated on: Mon, 18 May 2020 19:20]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76906 is a reply to message #76825] Tue, 19 May 2020 04:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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I've just discovered another no no word: 'booty'.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76908 is a reply to message #76906] Tue, 19 May 2020 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"The Composer wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 21:09"
I've just discovered another no no word: 'booty'.

--
Only to be used when quoting a redneck cretin because he was sexually harrassing someone by yelling at them across a busy street! 😂🤣



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76910 is a reply to message #76843] Mon, 25 May 2020 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl in Boston 9804 is currently offline  Carl in Boston 9804   United States

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If you used 'cocyx' in Scrabble, you would have to remove it. There is no such word in English. On the other hand, coccyx wouldn't be bad.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76911 is a reply to message #76910] Tue, 26 May 2020 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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And the phrase "fine with it" when writing about other people accepting a young man being gay. Even some of the good writers miss the boat on this one. 



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76912 is a reply to message #76911] Tue, 26 May 2020 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"Teddy wrote on Tue, 26 May 2020 06:05"
And the phrase "fine with it" when writing about other people accepting a young man being gay. Even some of the good writers miss the boat on this one. 

--
It seems to work as a phrase in the UK? The meaning is simple. "Fred's parents were fine with it." means they were not discontented, nor ecstatic.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76913 is a reply to message #76912] Tue, 26 May 2020 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"timmy wrote on Tue, 26 May 2020 00:25"

"Teddy wrote on Tue, 26 May 2020 06:05"
And the phrase "fine with it" when writing about other people accepting a young man being gay. Even some of the good writers miss the boat on this one. 

--
It seems to work as a phrase in the UK? The meaning is simple. "Fred's parents were fine with it." means they were not discontented, nor ecstatic.

--
if it were used occasionally this would be true but when it gets used nearly every time the situation is encountered in these tales it begins to become rather boring, unimaginative, and awkward, in my opinion, of course.  

[Updated on: Tue, 26 May 2020 10:26]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76914 is a reply to message #76903] Tue, 26 May 2020 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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"a story where all the main charactes got run over and killed by a train rather than any sort of reconcilliation taking place"

I'm going to reference a dead tree book here. It was set in California, and all sorts of conflicts were coming to a head ... and then there was this massive earthquake.

The author in question has quite a literary reputatiion.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76915 is a reply to message #76913] Tue, 26 May 2020 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"Teddy wrote on Tue, 26 May 2020 11:24"

"timmy wrote on Tue, 26 May 2020 00:25"

"Teddy wrote on Tue, 26 May 2020 06:05"
And the phrase "fine with it" when writing about other people accepting a young man being gay. Even some of the good writers miss the boat on this one. 

--
It seems to work as a phrase in the UK? The meaning is simple. "Fred's parents were fine with it." means they were not discontented, nor ecstatic.

--
if it were used occasionally this would be true but when it gets used nearly every time the situation is encountered in these tales it begins to become rather boring, unimaginative, and awkward, in my opinion, of course.  

--
It's frequency of deployment that annoys you rather than a subtly different meaning in the USA?

I agree that it's a rotten shorthand, and it also tells not shows. "Freds parents were so fine with it that they held a coming out party for him."  Woudl that be better?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76916 is a reply to message #76914] Tue, 26 May 2020 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"The Composer wrote on Tue, 26 May 2020 08:18"
"a story where all the main charactes got run over and killed by a train rather than any sort of reconcilliation taking place"

I'm going to reference a dead tree book here. It was set in California, and all sorts of conflicts were coming to a head ... and then there was this massive earthquake.

The author in question has quite a literary reputatiion.

--
Even a writer with "quite a literary reputation" has an off day from time to time! LOL

In the case I'm referring to the writer spends a couple dozen chapters getting the reader heavily invested in 4-5 young men and bringing the plots and subplots to what is expected to be a satisfactory resolution only to shove them all over a bank into the path of an oncoming locomotive in the final two paragraphs... So yeah... an off day for sure! He may have, and probably did enjoy yanking his readers around but the readers did not enjoy it. At least this reader did not.

It reminds me of another story I read quite a few years ago that was of a similar nature except the author, in the final chapter purposely broke up the relationship of the two primary characters, and he did it just to spite one of his readers who'd said something negative to him in an email. It was one of those situations where several different authors had written spinoffs on the original tale to include the same characters while adding new ones and developing the timeline in different directions. Killing off the couple's relationship not only impacted the origianl tale but destroyed the timeline for the spinoff's as well. The author then went to ground, not only with himself but with his website, and no one I know of has heard from him since. I learned the backstory from a friend of mine who was the author of one of the spinoff tales.



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76917 is a reply to message #76915] Tue, 26 May 2020 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"timmy wrote on Tue, 26 May 2020 10:30"

I agree that it's a rotten shorthand, and it also tells not shows. "Freds parents were so fine with it that they held a coming out party for him."  Woudl that be better?

--
Well, I'm not going to attempt to write another person's story for them, but, as in many of the other usage examples given in this thread, perhaps a bit of originality might be in order.

I realize that i'm not the best author there is around, but yes, the oft repeated phrase does get annoying after the eleventy-first time in a three month period. I'd like to think I could come up with something other than the same snippet of conversation, cut and pasted repeatedly. Maybe it's just me, and if so I can accept that Smile
 

[Updated on: Tue, 26 May 2020 18:27]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76920 is a reply to message #76917] Wed, 27 May 2020 01:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

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My nitpick in this category is when people use food references to refer to the genitals - for example, calling the penis a "meat lollipop" (often right before or during the performing of oral sex).
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76923 is a reply to message #76920] Wed, 27 May 2020 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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'the author, in the final chapter purposely broke up the relationship of the two primary characters, and he did it just to spite one of his readers who'd said something negative to him in an email'

I'm  incapable of posting a serial story [unlike Dickens!]. I have to complete it, and then publish. 
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76966 is a reply to message #76875] Wed, 03 June 2020 01:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker   Canada

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"The Composer wrote on Tue, 12 May 2020 10:28"
"Loose/lose is so common I'm actually surprised when someone gets it right nowadays."

And how about 'discrete' and 'discreet'?

--
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76967 is a reply to message #76966] Wed, 03 June 2020 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker   Canada

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"cole parker wrote on Wed, 03 June 2020 01:57"

"The Composer wrote on Tue, 12 May 2020 10:28"
"Loose/lose is so common I'm actually surprised when someone gets it right nowadays."

And how about 'discrete' and 'discreet'?

--

--Funny I'd stumble over this.  In the story I'm currently writing, just today I used the word 'discreet'.  Even though I know the difference between the two words, I still looked it up to be sure.  That's me being anal.  No one has a problem wlith that word, do they?

[Updated on: Wed, 03 June 2020 02:02]

Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76970 is a reply to message #76967] Wed, 03 June 2020 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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At the prospect of being considered as a science geek:

The energy levels of a hydrogen atom are discrete but not discreet.

PS Haven't I seen stories of yours rendered in 'Comic Sans'?
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76971 is a reply to message #76970] Wed, 03 June 2020 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker   Canada

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"The Composer wrote on Wed, 03 June 2020 10:03"
At the prospect of being considered as a science geek:

The energy levels of a hydrogen atom are discrete but not discreet.

PS Haven't I seen stories of yours rendered in 'Comic Sans'?

--
I read the misguided and sad chiding of the use of Comic Sans here.  I forget who the unfortunate soul is who made the comment.  Best left to his own devices.  Howerver, let me say, without reservation, that it's a great font.  Wonderful.  Among adjectives I'd throw at it are irreverent, sprightly, jaunty, youthful and, for those of us needing it, easy to read.  I would be interested in knowing why anyone would object to it.  Probably it's the same wounded souls who go around muttering, "Bay, humbug," in late December.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76972 is a reply to message #76971] Wed, 03 June 2020 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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It wouldn't be my first choice, but fine if used with discretion.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76974 is a reply to message #76971] Wed, 03 June 2020 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"cole parker wrote on Wed, 03 June 2020 16:56"

"The Composer wrote on Wed, 03 June 2020 10:03"
At the prospect of being considered as a science geek:

The energy levels of a hydrogen atom are discrete but not discreet.

PS Haven't I seen stories of yours rendered in 'Comic Sans'?

--
I read the misguided and sad chiding of the use of Comic Sans here.  I forget who the unfortunate soul is who made the comment.  Best left to his own devices.  Howerver, let me say, without reservation, that it's a great font.  Wonderful.  Among adjectives I'd throw at it are irreverent, sprightly, jaunty, youthful and, for those of us needing it, easy to read.  I would be interested in knowing why anyone would object to it.  Probably it's the same wounded souls who go around muttering, "Bay, humbug," in late December.

--
It is only reading speed issues that I criticse it for. It is a pleasant font and has a place. Probably not in a broadsheet newspaper, though.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76975 is a reply to message #76974] Thu, 04 June 2020 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker   Canada

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"timmy wrote on Wed, 03 June 2020 21:44"

"cole parker wrote on Wed, 03 June 2020 16:56"

"The Composer wrote on Wed, 03 June 2020 10:03"
At the prospect of being considered as a science geek:

The energy levels of a hydrogen atom are discrete but not discreet.

PS Haven't I seen stories of yours rendered in 'Comic Sans'?

--
I read the misguided and sad chiding of the use of Comic Sans here.  I forget who the unfortunate soul is who made the comment.  Best left to his own devices.  Howerver, let me say, without reservation, that it's a great font.  Wonderful.  Among adjectives I'd throw at it are irreverent, sprightly, jaunty, youthful and, for those of us needing it, easy to read.  I would be interested in knowing why anyone would object to it.  Probably it's the same wounded souls who go around muttering, "Bay, humbug," in late December.

--
It is only reading speed issues that I criticse it for. It is a pleasant font and has a place. Probably not in a broadsheet newspaper, though.

--I can easily agree with that.  Those papers tend to be pompous and fastidious and woudn't be caught dead with an upbeat style, which would include a capricious font like Comic Sans.  Heavens, they'd think, who'll ever take us seriously?  

Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76976 is a reply to message #76825] Thu, 04 June 2020 03:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Camy is currently offline  Camy   United Kingdom

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Perhaps if Comic Sans had been given another name, like Gravitas Sans, it wouldn't be perpetually bullied and beaten up in the playground.



"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats." - Albert Schweitzer

It's like Mad Max out here: guys doing guys, girls doing girls, girls turning into guys and doing girls that used to do girls and guys!
- from Alex Truelove
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76980 is a reply to message #76975] Thu, 04 June 2020 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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To me, fonts should be like computer operating systems: completely transparent.I don't mind whether a computer runs on Windows, Linux, or Mac, because I'm not interested in the operating system. I'm interested on the applications that run on that system, like photo editing, video editing, word processing, email and the rest of it.The same with fonts.

There is a place for fancy fonts, such as on the cover to a book. But when it comes to the main text, when you are going to read tens of thousands of words, you do not want the font to intrude on that process. That's why I dislike drop caps at the beginning of a chapter. There is a weird dead tree publishing convention that any paragraph that follows some form of heading is not indented, but that all subsequent paragraphs are indented. Why? I have no idea, except that I'm forced to follow that convention. Another convention is that if you intent paragraphs, you should not place in the space between one paragraph and another. Why? I have no idea.This might seem something of a digression. It is not. When you are reading page after page of page of text, you are interested not in how it's laid out, nor the font it is presented in, but the content of the text. Anything that diverts you from that interest is a failure.

Sorry if I'm going on at length about this. But, fonts. There are all sorts of limitations on readability: line length, line spacing, and all these others. The font is part of this. If an author wants to use a fancy font, that's fine, but it often impedes the readability of the text.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76981 is a reply to message #76980] Thu, 04 June 2020 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"The Composer wrote on Thu, 04 June 2020 11:38"
To me, fonts should be like computer operating systems: completely transparent.I don't mind whether a computer runs on Windows, Linux, or Mac, because I'm not interested in the operating system. I'm interested on the applications that run on that system, like photo editing, video editing, word processing, email and the rest of it.The same with fonts.

There is a place for fancy fonts, such as on the cover to a book. But when it comes to the main text, when you are going to read tens of thousands of words, you do not want the font to intrude on that process. That's why I dislike drop caps at the beginning of a chapter. There is a weird dead tree publishing convention that any paragraph that follows some form of heading is not indented, but that all subsequent paragraphs are indented. Why? I have no idea, except that I'm forced to follow that convention. Another convention is that if you intent paragraphs, you should not place in the space between one paragraph and another. Why? I have no idea.This might seem something of a digression. It is not. When you are reading page after page of page of text, you are interested not in how it's laid out, nor the font it is presented in, but the content of the text. Anything that diverts you from that interest is a failure.

Sorry if I'm going on at length about this. But, fonts. There are all sorts of limitations on readability: line length, line spacing, and all these others. The font is part of this. If an author wants to use a fancy font, that's fine, but it often impedes the readability of the text.

--
It's only a minor digression.

When the site was redesigned way back when, we looked at font. We discarded fonts that were hard to read. That left us with a clear choice between simple serif and sans serif fonts.

Studies at that time suggested that a serif font was easiest on the eye, albeit marginally slower to read than a sans serif font. Of those Times New Roman was the most common across platforms and browsers. It has the benefit of not being intrusive.

Then we looked at ragged right margin versus right justification. Right justification slows the reader down, and, if poorly rendered, can present white rivers in the text. We chose ragged right. That caught us back up on speed to read

A white band between paragraphs makes the page easier on the eye, more legible. We chose not to indent the first line and to have a blank line between paragraphs.

But the page background is also important. For the main site we chose an off white colour that appears white. It's restful. For story pages we chose to present page boundaries and a lighter off white shade for the text. The text is black, but the contrast between black and stark white is avoided.

This means that judder words are all the more apparent

This is all for the main site.  The forum is slightly different to keep it set a smidgen apart

Now I do indulge special effects from time to time, where appropriate, but all stories are presented in our house style carefully and on purpose

[Updated on: Thu, 04 June 2020 12:00]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76984 is a reply to message #76825] Thu, 04 June 2020 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker   Canada

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I don't necessarily disagree, Timmy, especially because you have reasons for your choices.  And Composer, you make good points, too.  There is another way to look at this, of course.

If everything looks the same, not only can boredom set in, but it takes away some of the creativity of the author.  I use colors on my home site not only because the site owner likes it that way, but because I can add a visual element to a story.  I use a different color scheme if the story is sad rather than joyful, action-paced rather that tranquil.  This can be done with both the background color and font color.  It's also possible with indenting and choice of font.  They can be chosen with the thought in mind of affecting the reader's mood while reading the story.  Having no indent makes the story look much different, much less friendly, say, than having an indent.

Readability, of course, is important.  Very important to me.  To enchance that, I like to add spaces between the lines of the story.  In Word, I use 1.3 line spacing.  Much easier to read that way.  I also like the font slight larger than some sites use, though that's easy for the reader to control.  But I also choose a font that's easy to read and not a bit distracting.  Maybe others disagree, but I find Comic Sans just as easy to read as Time New Roman and much less boring.

C
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76985 is a reply to message #76984] Thu, 04 June 2020 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

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And I will admit that I admire very many of yr stories.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76987 is a reply to message #76984] Thu, 04 June 2020 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"cole parker wrote on Thu, 04 June 2020 21:11"
I don't necessarily disagree, Timmy, especially because you have reasons for your choices.  And Composer, you make good points, too.  There is another way to look at this, of course.

If everything looks the same, not only can boredom set in, but it takes away some of the creativity of the author.  I use colors on my home site not only because the site owner likes it that way, but because I can add a visual element to a story.  I use a different color scheme if the story is sad rather than joyful, action-paced rather that tranquil.  This can be done with both the background color and font color.  It's also possible with indenting and choice of font.  They can be chosen with the thought in mind of affecting the reader's mood while reading the story.  Having no indent makes the story look much different, much less friendly, say, than having an indent.

Readability, of course, is important.  Very important to me.  To enchance that, I like to add spaces between the lines of the story.  In Word, I use 1.3 line spacing.  Much easier to read that way.  I also like the font slight larger than some sites use, though that's easy for the reader to control.  But I also choose a font that's easy to read and not a bit distracting.  Maybe others disagree, but I find Comic Sans just as easy to read as Time New Roman and much less boring.

C

--
The studies at the time suggest that Comic Sans, being a sans serif font, would be reasonably fast to read. Even so our reasons for choosing a serif font remain valid for the site, together with the flat background

There is the option here to have it, of course. It's in our font list, so one need not feel disenfonted

When I see a coloured background I use Safari's Reader View, whcuh removes it





Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76990 is a reply to message #76985] Thu, 04 June 2020 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker   Canada

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Thank you, and back at you!  You're a great writer.

C
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #76992 is a reply to message #76987] Thu, 04 June 2020 23:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker   Canada

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"timmy wrote on Thu, 04 June 2020 21:50"

"cole parker wrote on Thu, 04 June 2020 21:11"
I don't necessarily disagree, Timmy, especially because you have reasons for your choices.  And Composer, you make good points, too.  There is another way to look at this, of course.

If everything looks the same, not only can boredom set in, but it takes away some of the creativity of the author.  I use colors on my home site not only because the site owner likes it that way, but because I can add a visual element to a story.  I use a different color scheme if the story is sad rather than joyful, action-paced rather that tranquil.  This can be done with both the background color and font color.  It's also possible with indenting and choice of font.  They can be chosen with the thought in mind of affecting the reader's mood while reading the story.  Having no indent makes the story look much different, much less friendly, say, than having an indent.

Readability, of course, is important.  Very important to me.  To enchance that, I like to add spaces between the lines of the story.  In Word, I use 1.3 line spacing.  Much easier to read that way.  I also like the font slight larger than some sites use, though that's easy for the reader to control.  But I also choose a font that's easy to read and not a bit distracting.  Maybe others disagree, but I find Comic Sans just as easy to read as Time New Roman and much less boring.

C

--
The studies at the time suggest that Comic Sans, being a sans serif font, would be reasonably fast to read. Even so our reasons for choosing a serif font remain valid for the site, together with the flat background

There is the option here to have it, of course. It's in our font list, so one need not feel disenfonted

When I see a coloured background I use Safari's Reader View, whcuh removes it[/font-family][/font-family]



--Disenfonted.  I love it.

C
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77055 is a reply to message #76992] Fri, 12 June 2020 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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I mentioned earlier in this thread that I appreciate a bit of creativity when authors write about whether parents are accepting of their offspring's sexuality. "Fine with it" seems to be a standard phraseology, which, at least for me, seems to be overused.

Today I ran onto a story on here that while not making an issue of something that was only incidental to the story, presented it in a way that to me was... what? Comfortable, I guess? 
Quote:
I'd known I was gay like forever and had come out to my folks when I was thirteen. They'd told me they'd suspected I was gay for some time and it made no difference to them as I was still their son.


So thanks to Ivor Slipper in his story, Kissing Friends. It's short, makes the point, and avoids cookie cutter phraseology Smile



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77056 is a reply to message #77055] Fri, 12 June 2020 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker   Canada

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"Teddy wrote on Fri, 12 June 2020 03:12"
I mentioned earlier in this thread that I appreciate a bit of creativity when authors write about whether parents are accepting of their offspring's sexuality. "Fine with it" seems to be a standard phraseology, which, at least for me, seems to be overused.

Today I ran onto a story on here that while not making an issue of something that was only incidental to the story, presented it in a way that to me was... what? Comfortable, I guess? 
"Quote:"
I'd known I was gay like forever and had come out to my folks when I was thirteen. They'd told me they'd suspected I was gay for some time and it made no difference to them as I was still their son.


So thanks to Ivor Slipper in his story, Kissing Friends. It's short, makes the point, and avoids cookie cutter phraseology Smile

--
I can guess why an author would use a phrase like 'fine with it.'  He's probably trying to show normality, something that's fairly new.  In the past, it seemed most families would have a problem with it, or at least take some time to get used to it.  In many families in the world today, 'gay' isn't the bugaboo it was, adults are more accustomed to the idea that some, or many, kids are in fact gay, that it isn't a choice but most likely an inheritance, and so an announcement like that from their kid is accepted as fact and isn't the problem it was up till not many years ago.  'Fine with it' makes that clear, means it's no big deal, that it's accepted, that the family simply moved on.  I'd assume that was the thinking behind using those words, rather than making it a bigger thing than the writer wants it to be by taking more time to discuss how the statement was accepted.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77057 is a reply to message #77056] Fri, 12 June 2020 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

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"cole parker wrote on Fri, 12 June 2020 09:46"
--
I can guess why an author would use a phrase like 'fine with it.'  He's probably trying to show normality, something that's fairly new.  In the past, it seemed most families would have a problem with it, or at least take some time to get used to it.  In many families in the world today, 'gay' isn't the bugaboo it was, adults are more accustomed to the idea that some, or many, kids are in fact gay, that it isn't a choice but most likely an inheritance, and so an announcement like that from their kid is accepted as fact and isn't the problem it was up till not many years ago.  'Fine with it' makes that clear, means it's no big deal, that it's accepted, that the family simply moved on.  I'd assume that was the thinking behind using those words, rather than making it a bigger thing than the writer wants it to be by taking more time to discuss how the statement was accepted.


--

I think this sums up what I've been wanting to say for a while about the idea of using "fine with it" in a story.  In this day and age, if some people being LGBT is supposed to be a normal part of life, then other people shouldn't be making a big deal out of the fact that someone feels same-sex attractions, and thus it means that, indeed, they should be "fine with it."  Nobody's going to be jumping up and down for joy, there isn't going to be a huge coming out party witha parade marching down the street, and nobody's going to be collecting on any bets.  You're not heterosexual?  All right.  There shouldn't be anything more or less to it.  Sure, be mindful about such things as safe sex, but other than that?  It's not supposed to be a big deal in this day and age, so why try to make it one?
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77058 is a reply to message #77057] Fri, 12 June 2020 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"Mark wrote on Fri, 12 June 2020 17:13"

"cole parker wrote on Fri, 12 June 2020 09:46"
--
I can guess why an author would use a phrase like 'fine with it.'  He's probably trying to show normality, something that's fairly new.  In the past, it seemed most families would have a problem with it, or at least take some time to get used to it.  In many families in the world today, 'gay' isn't the bugaboo it was, adults are more accustomed to the idea that some, or many, kids are in fact gay, that it isn't a choice but most likely an inheritance, and so an announcement like that from their kid is accepted as fact and isn't the problem it was up till not many years ago.  'Fine with it' makes that clear, means it's no big deal, that it's accepted, that the family simply moved on.  I'd assume that was the thinking behind using those words, rather than making it a bigger thing than the writer wants it to be by taking more time to discuss how the statement was accepted.




--

I think this sums up what I've been wanting to say for a while about the idea of using "fine with it" in a story.  In this day and age, if some people being LGBT is supposed to be a normal part of life, then other people shouldn't be making a big deal out of the fact that someone feels same-sex attractions, and thus it means that, indeed, they should be "fine with it."  Nobody's going to be jumping up and down for joy, there isn't going to be a huge coming out party witha parade marching down the street, and nobody's going to be collecting on any bets.  You're not heterosexual?  All right.  There shouldn't be anything more or less to it.  Sure, be mindful about such things as safe sex, but other than that?  It's not supposed to be a big deal in this day and age, so why try to make it one?

--
I've been thinking hard about this one. I'd like people not to be 'fine with it'. I'd like it more to be a 'yeah? and?' thing, but it takes more skill to express that than many writers have.

I have never wanted tolerance, nor acceptance. All I have ever wanted is normality.

[Updated on: Fri, 12 June 2020 16:24]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77060 is a reply to message #77058] Sat, 13 June 2020 00:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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I'm reminded of the character in one of (I think!) Raphael's stories who made the case that it isn't necessary any longer to "come out." I first read it a couple of years ago and thought "Yeah...Okay, but how's that going to work."

On the other hand, if parents are "fine with it," doesn't that imply that the time is past when being hung up about being gay is abnormal and that one has to "come out" as well as confirm that the family is "fine with it?"

Easy for me to say! I'm old enough that the age range when would have occurred in my life was way back when "For What It's Worth" released.

By the way, that 1966 song turns out to be as relevant today as it was that summer.

You can take a list to that Steve Stills classic (in case you've forgotten it!) by clicking here.



Bensiamin
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77062 is a reply to message #76825] Sat, 13 June 2020 05:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Talo Segura is currently offline  Talo Segura   France

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It's a good point: do you need to come out? Being fine with it is about you. If you are happy in your own skin as a gay person, that is what is most important. Other people and society will change their attitudes slowly, will in some instances be pushed to change, accept, or acknowledge, by what they see and what you demand. Because you have the right to demand equality and vote for it and bring it into law. You have the right to hold hands, embrace, and kiss in public, wherever that same right is bestowed on heterosexuals. It is you that has to be fine with it and openness and publicity via films and books and role models and heroes, all add to helping you be fine with it. And that is where we are getting to.
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77063 is a reply to message #77058] Sat, 13 June 2020 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

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"timmy wrote on Fri, 12 June 2020 10:18"

I've been thinking hard about this one. I'd like people not to be 'fine with it'. I'd like it more to be a 'yeah? and?' thing, but it takes more skill to express that than many writers have.

I have never wanted tolerance, nor acceptance. All I have ever wanted is normality.

--

For most of us (or at least most of the people I tend to hang around with), our way of saying "Yeah?  And?" when we're accepting of something is to say that we're "fine with it."  Nobody thinks that we're being unskilled when we say that about most other things outside of talking about memebrs of the LGBT community comming out, nor do they wonder why we aren't sitting there with some sort of "phrase thesaurus" to come up with alternative statements when "fine with it" works quite well as an indicator that we're accepting and comfortable with whatever it is we're responding to.

As something of an example, let's say you said that you were thinking of rearranging the way the names of authors in the Story Shelf were ordered and wanted to know what what we thought of the proposed new method, and I replied that I was "fine with it."  Would you think that I wasn't being elequent enough, or that, secretly, I was really only being "tolerant" of your idea?  Of course not.  In fact, I'd go so far as to dare say that you'd consider my response to be...well, normal!  In practically all other situations (well, again, at least in my experience), when someone says that they're "fine" with something, people take it completely and totally as a normal response, and don't think for a moment that the person lacks good communications skills or that somehow it's not a normal response.  I kind of feel like some people (either consciously or unconsciously) are trying to read more into the declaration of  "I'm fine with it" than was ever intended by the author.  Why overcomplicate things?
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77064 is a reply to message #77060] Sat, 13 June 2020 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Camy is currently offline  Camy   United Kingdom

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Quote:
By the way, that 1966 song turns out to be as relevant today as it was that summer.
You can take a listen to that Steve Stills classic (in case you've forgotten it!) by clicking here.

--
'For What It's Worth' is a fantastic song! Also, Neil Young looks like a Werewolf in training.



"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats." - Albert Schweitzer

It's like Mad Max out here: guys doing guys, girls doing girls, girls turning into guys and doing girls that used to do girls and guys!
- from Alex Truelove
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77067 is a reply to message #77064] Sun, 14 June 2020 00:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin   United States

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Ain't nobody else had sideburns like them!



Bensiamin
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77076 is a reply to message #77067] Mon, 15 June 2020 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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I hear what everyone is saying. Good points all.

My only objection to the phrase is its appearance in 95% of the stories where there are similar events. It's predictable. It happes over and over an over again. From a literary standpoint it's beginning to bother me.

"I told my folks. They're fine with it." 

Okay... Nice, but didn't the last 43 stories I read have that exact same phraseology? It lands with a big thud by the 44th time. What's wrong with a little creativity in order to make a story appear less cookie-cutter-esque. 

"My parents found out I'm gay. It's all good!"

shrug... Smile



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77080 is a reply to message #77076] Tue, 16 June 2020 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

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"Teddy wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 14:19"
I hear what everyone is saying. Good points all.

My only objection to the phrase is its appearance in 95% of the stories where there are similar events. It's predictable. It happes over and over an over again. From a literary standpoint it's beginning to bother me.

"I told my folks. They're fine with it." 

Okay... Nice, but didn't the last 43 stories I read have that exact same phraseology? It lands with a big thud by the 44th time. What's wrong with a little creativity in order to make a story appear less cookie-cutter-esque. 

"My parents found out I'm gay. It's all good!"

shrug... Smile

--

I guess that (for me, at least) it kind of falls under the topic of "You write what you know," and that's just how I tend to talk under most such circumstances that require such a response of how something is fine/good/terrific/cool/etc., and it's how a lot of the people I know tend to talk.  (Maybe I just need to get out more.  I don't know.)  So I find it kind of strange that someone would find it, at the very least, too repetitive, and have not often had any reason to consider any other variation on the declaration of "It's fine."
Re: Story words that just don't do it for me  [message #77081 is a reply to message #77080] Tue, 16 June 2020 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

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"Mark wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 18:34"

Quote:
I guess that (for me, at least) it kind of falls under the topic of "You write what you know," and that's just how I tend to talk under most such circumstances that require such a response of how something is fine/good/terrific/cool/etc., and it's how a lot of the people I know tend to talk.  (Maybe I just need to get out more.  I don't know.)  So I find it kind of strange that someone would find it, at the very least, too repetitive, and have not often had any reason to consider any other variation on the declaration of "It's fine."




--
I'm okay with being strange as long as you're okay with being normal! Frankly, normal people frighten me! LOL Wink



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
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