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I was just thinking today what people really think and feel about people wit HIV?
Do you feel knowing someone with HIV is a bit intimidating?
Do you feel that getting to know someone with HIV is maybe just a waste of time because they may not (Though no longer true I must say) have that great a life span?
I picked those two out right because I have had them expressed to me before but time they are a changing always and I was woundering how people were thinking these days
Rich
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I have very simple answers.
We met and hugged. I think you were the one who held back a little, maybe because of the reactions you have stated here.
Some people find death difficult. Odd, since we are all dying. HIV may produce AIDS. If so one dies of something named.
Almost all death is unpleasant, so why HIV should feel any more or less unpleasant to one who does nto have it........ I find that hard to understand.
We each may get run over by a bus tomorrow. Does that mean we are of less worth? I think not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Funny you should pick that analogy about the bus, I was just thinking the other day if I saw some one that has just stepped out in the path of an on coming bus, if not knowing them or in any subjective way knowing there worth give my life to save them if I could. I still haven't answered that question! But to my mind it's not a matter of worth but maybe self perspective if that makes any since.
Yes maybe I did hold back, i guess, for me, another matter of perspective, the last few years have been an eye opener in many ways. I never was one to hold back before, This may make me sound like an ass to some , but I have had adventures in my life that most people can only dream of.
Hehehe The adventure continues, the HIV is only an addendum. This may sound strange, but in some ways it has inriched the adventure in ways that I had not expected
Rich
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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I sat here and thought about your question, Rich, and determined that I honestly cannot say what my reaction would be to meeting someone who I knew had AIDS. I know how I am supposed to react, but having never been in the situation it is a lot like a mugging or other such event where one knows how they are supposed to react, but never do until they are actually faced with the situation. I would hope that I will treat that person like any other. I have known others that I knew were dying (usually from cancer) and after an initial nervousness our interactions returned to normal. And that is how I look at AIDS, as an illness that could be terminal.
Hugs, Charlie
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Back in the late 80s when I was coundeling teens, I counseled a handful of boys who were openly gay, two of whom had HIV. It was very weird at first. The disease was new and the public in general was still quite panicked about it. It couldn't be forgotten or set aside. I was their counselor. By the very nature of our relationship, we had to talk about it. But my initial hesitance and concerns were quickly laid to rest. It took a little longer than with most of the others, but as I got to know them I couldn't help but treat them the same as everyone else. I could hold them. I could hug them. I could let them cry on my shoulder. I think perhaps that they taught me more than I taught them.
A few years later, I worked with a man who had HIV. He didn't try to keep it a secret. A lot of people stayed away from him, but because of my earlier experience with the boys, I was able to be his friend. I always thought (and certainly hope) that I treated him the same as anyone else. I know he was grateful that he had someone who would eat lunch with him once in a while or stop at a bar for a drink after work. I knew him for about two years, then he left. He said he was going back east to live with his mother. I never heard from him again, but heard through the grapevine that HIV had become AIDS and he had left for health reasons.
The disease no longer intimidates me and it was certainly no waste of time to get to know these individuals. They were wonderful people and I believe I am better off having known them.
Think good thoughts,
e
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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When there is so much to be learnt from everyone, even if they are only in your life a short time. I guess I'm lucky, from experience it seems I'm able to detatch myself from people and things emotionally to some extent, so if I lost someone, especially when it was expected, hopefully I'd be able to move on.
I have never known anyone with the disease so I don't know what my reaction would be, I don't think it would really be important, actually, as long as I was free from the risk of it being transmitted then I'd have no need to worry, although I'd try to provide all the support I could.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I somehow missed answering this one...
I have had friends, colleagues, clients, and relatives with HIV since the mid-80's. I'm waaay past the point of feeling threatened by any aspect of it. And so should we all work at being.
The only special consideration is adjusting ourselves to how the person with HIV wants to deal with it (or not deal with it) with us.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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We forget that people come here and leave here all the time. We need to understand HIV, and whether it links to AIDS (still a debate running here).
We need to understand other diseases, too. HPV, Hepatitis, NSU, Chlamydia (and King Lear's other daughters).
We need to understand what they do, and how to avoid them
And we need to understand that an infectious disease does not make a person a social outcast. If we need an example of this, look at HRH Princess Diana's work in raising the porfile of seriously unwell people
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Education is needed if we are to get to the point where this subject can be talked about freely. if we don't or can't we put yet another generation at risk!
We here in the first world are lucky, we have had the meds that now, for all intents can prolong life not only for a few years but with the advent of new drugs, most likeley, I and ppl like me will have a fairly normal life span.
Any time I start feeling sorry for myself I just have to think of the ppl in Sub Saharan Africa or anywhere in the third world where this disease is stil ravaging popuations, the cost of which, we are just begining to see and with effects that some researchers say are going to earth shattering!
Nevertheless and i can not be emphatic enough when I say because of lack of openes, for what ever reason, there seems to be an upswing in infection and risky behaviour in the first world. I am not talking to the youngest of us here. Though teen infection is on the rise, it seems the ppl exibiting the greatest rates of infection and risky behaviour are ppl in their 30's *sigh*! Folks what I really want to say is don't FEAR it FACE it, we are not out of the woods yet. I can tell you that even though I have the best drugs available to me I would just as soon not go through with having to take my toxins ( That's what they are ya know) and go through there side effects every day!
You guys haven't heard the last of me on this subject, I want you to be protected not only physicaly but mentally too! Your well being is important to you, those you love and me too!
Rich
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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I read an article in the paper talking about what you're saying. That there has been a sharp upswing in reported HIV positive cases in the past 3 years and that the largest group is young gay men 21 to 35.
The article said that it's believed that the fear has lessened to the point where they are taking risks that 10 years ago they wouldn't have taken. That the use of condoms is lower. That the medications are helping so many men that the younger men seem to feel that even if they get sick, they can take meds and be all right.
The health programs in school talk about it, tell you about dirty needles, bodily fluids, etc....but of course, only from the heterosexual viewpoint.
I guess what these younger gay guys have forgotten is that it's great that they can't get pregnant but they can get AIDS.
{{{{hugs Rich}}}}
smith
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And I'm afraid it's the very fact that matters of such great magnitude are only taught from the heterosexual point of view that this situation exists (or, at least, is a major contributing factor to it). In their blind, fear-motivated quest to "save lives", they are allowing so many more to be affected because of all the misinformation they peddle. It is all so unnecessary.
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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This is one of the reasons I created the resources plages. It is also why my good friend Helen Knox created the Global Cyber Clinic. And interestingly why she links her "willy Worries" site to my resources.
We each try to explain things in simple, non patronising language. Don't always succeed, but we try very hard.
One of the things I did for research was attended a UK Genito Urinary Medicine (GUM) clinic for a full sexual health audit. And I describe that in the site.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Who is HIV positive...reaches out to people and was totally accepted by someone without question, then without explanation, rhyme or reason pushes that same exact person away, hurting them? Acceptance is hard enough in this world, getting along is easier but so many people would just prefer to hurt others.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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It is impossible to reason with the irrational.
It seems to me that maybe better early knowledge woudl have prevented the pushing away?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I had friends of 20 + years that at first on the surface accepted my HIV status but then slowly drifted away.
I don't think that these were malicious acts, the reasons are as many as the ppl them selves and valid if only to them yet valid. I may have been hurt for a while but then I realized it was more pangs of sorrow that passed and that even before I had HIV ppl came and went for what ever reason to my sorrow and regret.
Life is change yes bad things will come. As I said there are things about HIV that have inrich my life, one is to not hold to those things that have caused me pain and sorrow, Well, i hold on to some of the sorrow., but most negitive things I let go. I just figure no matter how long or short life is, I just don't have that kind of time anymore! Revel in the joys
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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ien
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Netherlands
Registered: April 2002
Messages: 81
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I think that with HIV (unlike with cancer or some other illness) there's a couple of problems. One it's contagious (is that the right word?), so people are afraid. Two you can get it from sex, and as we all know sex is dirty ;P I once read an article that mentioned a Dutch author who stated that AIDS was 'invented' by men to bring down the population in Africa, I'm pretty curious about that book, cause the article said that the author came a long way in proving his theory that the AIDS virus that kills people is in fact a mutated (again the right word??) form of AIDS that used to be found only in horses.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I'm talking about the person with HIV doing the pushing away. Regardless of how many times I said there was no problem [and proved there wasn't], he has, by his actions alone, shown me that I AM NOT worth knowing nor being his friend despite all the support and friendship given.
Hope that clears things up because I too will not hold onto the hurt caused by someone who cannot appreciate what I have to offer.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I was 100% the wrong way round. I apologise.
Have they been able to answer when you asked, or was that a part of the pushing away as well?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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richard round
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Getting started |
Location: Originaly Houston,Tx
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 1
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Some times friendships just don't come to fruition as we would like them to, that's just life it may not have had anything to do with the HIV.
Just don't be offended by it, friendship is a balancing act some times it comes down to a matter of prespective. what is being offered may be seen as something totaly different.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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And sometimes when a person finds out about a life-changing thing, the people in their lives take on a different meaning and things don't look or feel the same to them. This may have had nothing to do with you, but everything to do with the person's emotional and psychologivcal reaction to the diagnosis.
Ideally they should have been able to talk to about the changed perspective, but sometimes they can't, or don't have the perspective as yet.
That doesn't change the pain...but explains some people's experiencce.
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No Message Body
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Never a reply, just a pushing away, ignoring me. My decision has been it's ultimately that person's choice and when they decide to talk again, I'll be here the same as before -- without judgement, with complete compassion and understanding. I said I would be his friend to the end and I meant it -- even if he has a hard time believing me.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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My friend was already diagnosed when I met him. I firmly believe he made the choice. I am married so I was asking for nothing more than a friend. Still, ultimately I left it up to him and went on my own way, leaving the door open if he ever wanted a chance to talk. That's just the way I am.
Thank you all for the advice, it was of course, greatly appreciated.
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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that happens alot of times when the person himself feels worthless and unable to offer the friendship he knows might ultimately end in more pain than just shoving you away causes.
Pushing away, ignoring, isn't always because the person stops caring. He's been handed a huge burden. Perhaps he's totally overwhelmed and can't involve your heart in it and knowing that you will hang in there comforts him even as he shoves the door shut.
Do just what you're doing, please. Even if he's not acknowledging you right now, he knows you're there and that means an awful lot. I know it's really difficult to just sit back and know he is trying to do this without your friendship but he really isn't. Some things we foolishly believe we have to do alone. We forget that the people who love us are always there in spirit just waiting with a hug.
You are a most excellent friend 
smith
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In a way I am glad I started this thread in others, I'm not!
To begine with at least, I told myself this was a way to get ppl to think. I have found it really was a way for me to test the waters so to speak, selfishly I suppose. I think this has become the safest way for me to get close to ppl with out the fear of to much rejection, in black and white, or, hehehehe Black and blue, if rejected it is just words to me now.
Oh god this is gonna sound like a pitty party and really it isn't. that's not what most want! What David and smith said are very valid, though it differs for everyone who goes through it to an extent. Some a lot worse and some far better.
Oh man like my muse the other day, here are so many desperately weak words. Here it goes though hehehe, For me it is very simple. After diagnoses I told no one for a year till I had to start treatment. Once that started my family knew something was up, so i told them. It was not recived well to say the least. Friends I have had for 20+ years huged me and said we still love you, well really neither of thoughs thing happened hehehe I have been discribed as a mans man and one doesn't say or do those thing to such a manly man LOL. But after a while they too driffted away. The upshot of all this is that I haven't heard from those friends not one word in over three years more like over four by now and my remaining sister and brother, I haven't heard from in at least three and the only time I hear from my remaining rent, my father is when I call he never calls, at least we are cordial. Then they found out at work and shortly after I lost That job, I know that's supposed to be illeagle right hehehe right.
Ok here's one life waded up like a piece of wast paper and into the bin.
I used a word recently misanthropic. The worst of the word means to hate mankind, no that's not me, the least is distrust, well, lets just say I don't know when i am going to be able to easly snuggle into someones open arms. How would anyone in my shoes react?
I do so still love and I will show it the best way I can. So for me Kanga I now this, not wall, but sheild lets say will not be coming down to real close anything for who knows how long, I guess it all depends.
Rich
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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You see, I often meet people who push away. The very toughest can actually manage, eventually, to succeed in pushing me away, if they work out how to do it.
Many people here have been "away pushers" at some time in their lives.
I usually manage not to be pushed away, though it is sometimes all I can do not to be pushed. It takes an iron will to accept the pushes as almost cries for help.
I'm not saying that this is true of your friend. I am just observing that it might be.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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