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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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A new site has joined the Gay Advice Circle webring (see the foot of this page). Thsi is the site.
On it is a LOT of text and layout lifted from my own site.
I am half flattered. but it is VERY odd to find your own words appearing on another site, and to see yout own layout appearing on another site.
I have asked the webmaster to include acknowledgements and links. I guess if he does not I will have to take some form of other action
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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Understandable. Do you have copyright notices in place? I suppose if the site is for educational/information purposes, the only harm is not giving you due credit. You SHOULD be flattered.
There is something to be said for a completely educational/informational site without erotica or links to erotica. If you ever do a major revamp, Tim, you might consider this. I would be hesitant to give out the iomfats link to a young person, but less hesitant with something like jackinworld which is completely informational.
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I think the site is well-intentioned and borne out of a genuine desire to help. But plagiarism is unacceptable.
Frankly I'm puzzled why he didn't ask you. Did he really think you wouldn't find out?
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...Or maybe this guy is just some naive fella who has no sense of the concept of 'copyright infringement', who knows.
Have you heard from him since you sent the mail? Is your stuff still up on his site? I don't want to increase his hit-o-meter by checking it myself in case he's just some common thief.
I hope he meant well and just did it the wrong way...
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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He HAS remoived the webring linkage, and has editted his site today, but he has NOT dealt with my copyright
I have a full notice on the front page about copyright
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Think of it this way: I wish I could help someone half as much as you have helped me. If i didn't know any better, I might try to copy you myself.
Sure, let him know it's wrong. But PLEASE, don't everyone assume this person has bad intentions.
Let this guy know, maybe he does now.
One of the few things I really like about myself, I assume people are good, till they PROVE me wrong. Oh sure, I have been burned alot. But I try my best not to prejudge.
Give this guy a chance, I have seen such compasion here.
If not, then lets get em!!! hehe
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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He has taken no action, nor replied to numerous emails. I have now sent thim this message:
BEGINS
Gordon, I am being and have been very reasonable and polite over your direct lifting of copyright material from my website. But I am starting to lose patience since you are not replying to me nor acknowledging my copyright in public, nor removing the text. But I do know you have been online and I do know you have edited your site.
The only conclusion that I can come to is that you expect me to go away quietly and ignore your site. That just is not going to happen. I am going to pursue my copyright by all means at my disposal.
You say "You can send me an email, sms, phone me or send a fax. All contact details are genuine and look forward to hearing from you. If you do not contact me you will never get to know me...." Well, I am emailing you. You do not reply. You give me a wealth of contact data. I don't intend to spend money phoning you. From your silence I feel I can expect an unpleasant reply.
On the plus side I think your site is of great value. I object simply to having my words, the sweat of my brow, taken and used without permission. I do not give that permission UNLESS you acknowledge my copyright and provide a link to my site. The perfect link is http://www.iomfats.org/resourceindex.htm which leads to the full set of pages from which you have taken samples. There is nothing unfair about that, nothing arduous, nothing complex, nothing challenging.
Gordon, my patience is running out. We need a deadline here. So, since you do not reply, I will set one. Noon BST, Saturday September 7th 2002. When that time passes with no response from you that indicates acceptable actions and timeframes, I reserve the right to take whatever reasonable action I see fit without further reference to you. I may tell you what I am doing out of courtesy. I may allow you to become surprised.
ENDS
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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I know, I may be being overly generous, but there are so many things to go wrong with e-mail. Tried read receipts? Those CAN also be misleading - just a though. * H U G * for you, Tim, regardless.
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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He IS reading email. He seems not to understand that I am actually friendly, and that all I want is my work acknowledged. Surely that is not too much to ask
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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This was sent to: webmaster-advice@gmdesign.org.uk, gordon@gmdesign.org.uk, copy sales@donhost.co.uk
Mr Menzies: Please note the terms and conditions under which your site is hosted by donhost. You are in breach of those terms and conditions by infringing my copyright. I have not yet made a FORMAL complaint to your web host, but I have made them aware that I attest that you are infringing my copyright.
As time passes without your taking an action which you and I agree together is acceptable my attitude is hardening. We are STILL at the point where I will be content with a statement that I am the originator and copyright owner, and a link to the resources pages in my own site from each place where my work is placed on your site. There will come a point when that will no longer be available as a solution to the problem you have caused yourself
2. Web Site Hosting And Email (from http://www.donhost.co.uk/order/terms.html)
2.2.2 you will not upload, post, link to or transmit:
(a) any material which is unlawful, threatening, abusive, malicious, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, blasphemous, profane or otherwise objectionable in any way.
(b) any material containing a virus or other hostile computer program.
(c) any material which constitutes, or encourages the commission of, a criminal offence or which infringes any patent, trade mark, design right, copyright or any other intellectual property right or similar rights of any person which may subsist under the laws of any jurisdiction.
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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It has been sent to: gordon@gmdesign.org.uk gordon29uk@yahoo.com webmaster-advice@gmdesign.org.uk
it has again been copied to his web host.
There is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you, nor sworn at you. I have simply asserted my rights as copyright owner of large tranches of text that you have used without reference to me or permission.
Your site which provides advice to the young gay man is mostly directly stolen from my own, word for word. Verbatim.
You or someone acting for you applied this week to join the Teenage Gay Advice Webring. I am ringmaster of that ring. You had then a webring page, and I accepted you to the ring. Then I read your site and found it is work that is MY copyright. This is the site under http://niceguy.org.uk/advice/index.htm which you own, design and operate according to information on it. During the week the webring page and another page on sexually transmitted disease symptoms etc (taken directly from my site) vanished and your webring membership vanished
THAT SITE breaches MY COPYRIGHT. it is very simple. It is black and white.
Now, instead of reacting in the way you are doing, remind yourself all that I want. I want my copyright acknowledged wherever you infringe it and a link to http://www.iomfats.org/resourceindex.htm placed prominently on those pages.
Your web host does not allow sites which infringe other people's copyright. I have already notified them in a friendly manner of your infringement.
Put plain, your site at http://niceguy.org.uk/advice/index.htm infringes my copyright. I affirm and attest that I an the copyright owner of much of this site.
I notice that the advice site is now absent from the net. I have no objection to it EXISTING if it acknowledges my copyright and provides a prominent link to my own resources for gay men from where much of the text was taken. I feel that the site can only do good. Even so I will not have the sweat of MY brow represented as the sweat of YOUR brow.
If it appears under another URL I will find it and check it for content. This is a thing you have to resolve with common decency, not by any other means
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon"
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 2:54 PM
> What fuckin' drugs are you on!!!??
> My website has been online since 1997 and have had no
> complaints. It is ALL my own work. You insist I have
> read my email and changed my site, you are wrong. I
> check my email every 3 or 4 days, and my site has not
> been updated for a week.
> Get your facts right.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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Kind of says it all doesn't it?
Like others here, I was leaning towards the more moderate view that his infringement could not have been intentional, and however thoughtless it may have been, he would generously own up and provide the recogition you deserve, and then move on from there.
It would seem that he has chosen a course of outrage, which begs the question, what was he really doing with the web-site in the first place, and specifically what were his motivations in providing it.
Warren C. E. Austin
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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Sent to: gordon@gmdesign.org.uk; advice@gmdesign.org.uk; gordon29uk@yahoo.;webmaster-advice@gmdesign.org.uk
copied again to sales@donhost.co.uk
__________________________________________________________
I do have it right. You have taken the relevant part of the site down. You have removed any links to that part of your site. Why not simply stop evading the truth and say "I am sorry. I got it wrong. I should have asked permission"?
You do seem incapable of civility, and make neither a good ambassador for gay men, nor Clan Menzies. That is, I suppose, your free choice. I remind oyu, simply, that you have been the abusive one in this. Your initial abuse was in infringing my copyright. You now perpetuate it by fould language.
You will now STOP sending me abuse. This is something I insist on. I give you formal notice now that I will no longer be satisfied, shoudl I find you have stolen my work elsewhere, with a link or acknowledgement of copyright. You seem to be making your own bed. It appears that you wil have to lie in it.
Any further incidents from you, including abusive emails, will be dealt with with no further reference to you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon"
To: "It's Only Me from Across the Sea"
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: Re:
> What fuckin' drugs are you on!!!??
> My website has been online since 1997 and have had no complaints. It is ALL
> my own work, and not stolen any work. It has no connection to this so called
> iafoths site and has no content whatsoever that is similar, have you even
> looked at my site or just taken his word for
> it( http://gordon.niceguy.org.uk). It looks like a straight man called
> iafots cannot accept a niceguys site.
> Get your facts right.
>
>
>
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At this point, I believe you must at least monitor the site. If his disregard for your rights continues, you must persue this. This seems to be quite unjust. If you would like my help in documentation, please let me know, I will help anyway I can.
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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then why is it bad to have it spread around a little? Is this a question of ethics, or ego????
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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... which was kind of silly really.
All Tim wanted from him was for him to acknowledge copyright, and provide a link somewhere on his web-site back to the relevant host content.
Judging by his responses to Tim's request, he appears to be sort of difficult to deal with.
All rather unfortunate.
Warren C. E. Austin
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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In addition his theft of the material also placed it in a framework that removed a part of its usefulness.
Ego? It is simply my work. My copyright, and my property.
He spent a long time denying he had done it while removing his site. Obviously the boy is an asshole, since all I ever asked him to do was to acknowledge his source. Instead he started being obscene and deying things, and then tried to cover his tracks.
Copyright is copyright. It is non negotiable.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I say like Nick, did he really think you wouldn't find out? 
He has disabled his site at present. Error 403 