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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I agree that a big problem in low socio-economic groups (black and white alike) is parenting.
My mum had me when she was 16, she always worked part time and now I'm in the second best University in Australia (and probably the hardest to get into- the best one is in Canberra and no-one wants to live there  ). I think in my Mum's case her willingness to work part-time and finish her year 12 were big factors. Also her joining the Mormon church and giving up smoking and drinking.
I think parenting, including wasting money on smokes and booze is what keeps a lot of poor families poor.
I'm just glad I wasn't destined for that kind of fate.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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My family was persecuted by Nazis. I am not keen on Nazis.
Turning the other cheek is all very well.
I wonder how the Indians looked on the white people who had conquered them by sheer weight of numbers and stolen their lands?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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In your post you asked a question, meant for Eldon, about what the differences between blacks and whites are. If you read your own post carefully, you provide answers to your own question. Therefore you don't ask out of ignorance. Your question is either rhetorical or your intention is to test Eldon.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Why do they all move to the south when they retire? Well because it is too damn cold in the north; at least where I come from in Minnesota.
I am traveling around as much as I can afford (well actually a lot more than I can afford) and find it a great experience.
Ken
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Actually, They are Native Americans... I have many N.A. friends... I built the website for their group... and if I slip and use the word "indian" when refering to them I get the hairy eyeball...
I see it that each group has the right to determine what term is acceptable.
I also see it as not the easiest thing to keep up with the politically correct terminology especially when it changes as often as with some groups.
Nevertheless, it is their right to change...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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Oh!!, got it, there was so much in this thread, I forgot he said that, my bad!!
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JimB
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Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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Yes! Now that is the kind of drug problem we need more of in this country.
JimB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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Really I susopect they might prefer the name of their nation above all. But those of us raised on The Lone Ranger find it hard to keep getitng the names right.
Isn't the root of "indian" the word "indigenous"? (Ignore India in this!)
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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I could be wrong, but I thought the Native Americans got their name "Indians" from Colombus?
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I think you guys must have missed this part of one of Donny's postings.
Well, I'm colored too. I'm pink. In the summers parts of me get to be this copper color, and the hair on my legs goes from light brown to blond, so I am not only colored, but I change colors.
Speaking from experience, Eldon in cargs, suntanned and golden-haired, is a sight that defies any description.
Cut my man some slack here dudes, okay? He gets up at like 4:30 am every day, works his ass off in the dairy barns and with the livestock until 7, then gulps breakfast, showers, and gets to school in time for homeroom. Usually. Then if we're not doing athletics that day he is home by 3:30 pm and working again, then after supper he is on homework like me. I mean he never rests. His father is relying on him more and more and he has taken over all the breeding and semen banks and breeding records. It is a big responsibility and he does not do anything halfway.
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JL
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Getting started |
Location: US
Registered: December 2004
Messages: 24
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I see, I see. Thanks.
Therefore you don't ask out of ignorance. Your question is either rhetorical or your intention is to test Eldon.
It wasn't my intention to do either. I really did just want a list of all the differences he's noticed between the two groups. No rhetoric or testing involved.
JL
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JL
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Getting started |
Location: US
Registered: December 2004
Messages: 24
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you continued on and in the course of your post highlighted and discussed some of the differences.
You and Nigel both pointed this out and I agree (obviously, ha, it's there in the post). But what I was asking for was a plain list, with or without explanations, of the most significant differences between the two groups. He mentions various mannerisms and what not in his posts, I just wanted to kind of suck out all the content and leave a cut-and-dried list. Almost like a compare and contrast essay.
As I said in my other post- I think the difference is cultural.
As opposed to genetic...? Regardless of what the other option is, I agree. And also agree with your next point, though I think Obama, in his current position, has to stress (or at least mention) his non-whiteness somewhat, just as Hillary has to bring up being female occasionally.
JL
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You are right. Columbus believed that he had found the seaway to India, and for a long time The Caribbean Islands were called the West Indies, and hence the inhabitants were called Indians. It has been said that even after it was discovered that his ships had not arrived in India, Columbus refused to accept the overwhelming evidence.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Genetics explains physical difference-
Black people run fast, jump high, have big penises, curly hair and dark skin.
White people are hairy and have a variety of hair and eye colours.
But I think things like success at school are cultural. Predisposition towards drug abuse might be a mix of cultural and genetic... Plenty of white trash abuse drugs, though...
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Oh and the higher crime rate is likely to be mostly cultural, but the higher incidence of drug use may be a factor.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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ProfZodiac
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Likes it here |
Location: United States
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 115
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Okay, I'm not going to respond to this thread in earnest like I'd wanted to at some point. Mainly cause I couldn't be arsed to put in that much time into a post, when I can spend the time working on something that will have my proper name on it.
But Timmy, you are gathering a sum total of one side of the story. Don't just assume that because there are citations in a post of Eldon's or Curtis's that it is the only set of "facts" out there. I see that JL has done some excellent work providing the Northern side of the story, and I do hope it's taken with the same amount of respect and credence as anything from south of Pennsylvania.
One thing I will add, though - those of us in the North find it amusing, to the point of stereotype, that folks from the South are fixated on a war that happened almost 150 years ago now. We hear firsthand accounts of the Civil War being referred to, in public schools, as the "War of Northern Aggression", when the facts bear out that the South made the first active invasion attempt. We hear firsthand accounts of folks driving in the South and seeing bumper stickers that read "North 1, South 0 - Halftime". We hear people actually say "the South will rise again."
Those of us up here moved on an awful long time ago. We don't have this "praise God and pass the ammunition" mindset. Maybe "the South" is a misunderstood culture, but by the same token, our stereotyping of folks from your neck of the woods, Eldon, is not without merit. It's gotten substantially worse when the dumbest and most incompetent president in our history comes from "the South". And I'm not talking about Jimmy Carter.
So yeah, folks, just keep in mind that all this "history" is being presented from one perspective. There are more.
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>those of us in the North find it amusing, to the point of stereotype, that folks from the South are fixated on a war that happened almost 150 years ago now...Those of us up here moved on an awful long time ago.
Of course we moved on a long time ago. We were the victors. The land wasn't fought in the North, it was fought in the South. Our property and livelihood weren't burned, destroyed, stolen... actually, just what did you have to move on from? Northern life was barely disrupted and so it's hardly a fair comparison.
>our stereotyping of folks from your neck of the woods, Eldon, is not without merit.
Actually it is. It is the same stereotyping used against blacks and it is unconscionable.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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Most people outside the USA have no idea.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America
Good place to start, methinks.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Like the facts are that the south did begin the agression by sttacking Fort Sumter, which was a Northern instalation located in the harbor of Charleston. South Carolina.
I mean... If a soverign nation declares war on another... after the first shot is fired... would you (or anyone) expect the north to wait to let the insurectionists invade?
Or would you gather your army and meat the threat head on?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Dear Saben<
Well your have my admiration (and applause too if you like). And so does Donny (doubled in spades). It seems to me that people like you will make society better for everyone. And quite often it is necessary to stand up against society or a bit of it.
For example it is common for pupils at school to pretend it is cool not to try; to pay no attention and allow oneself to get bored, to get by on slipshod work and no homework. I knew a girl whose life was blighted by that attitude. At my local school I was amazed to hear the Principal say that children needed permission to excel! How right he was. It was a surprising insight. They do need that permission and particularly the disadvantaged - in this school that is the poor whites and the west indians whose culture encourages the quick buck they can make by dealing drugs or stealing.
The realisation that trying to do ones best can itself raise the bar and enable you to do better is something I never had to learn. At my school everyone tried and I only encountered people who didn't when I went into the armed forces and found that almost everyone else was different. It was cool to skive off! The clever thing to do was to find a way to avoid work and even boredom was supposed to be cleverer than interesting work. I still think that one of the worst things National Service did was to teach a lot of decent people how to behave badly. I have no admiration for the armed forces.
And that girl caught the wrong message and either the people who looked after her didn't realise it or didn't know how to change her, but the consequence was that she never tried and hid her quality and never went to university and so missed a chance of stretching her mind and abilities. We were quite close: I paid for an abortion when she needed it and got mistaken for the father when I visited her in hospital (the real father was a beautiful black man!).
Love,
Anthony
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I never tried.
For me I felt getting As without trying made me seem more intelligent. And if I got a B and tried hard it implied I was stupid.
My mentality was "failure is better than just passing- at least with a fail you seem lazy, not stupid".
It's taken a while to be happy with getting a 50% "pass" and I still get frustrated sometimes when I'm not topping the class.
Still gotta get my head around being process focused rather than just caring about the outcomes.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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