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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Your specific admission of a relationship that crossed the line of legal limits as proof enough regarding your preferances....
epehophyle? Now arent we splitting hairs?
Like the saying goes, if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck.... It's a duck....
As for argueing for rights.... thats fine as long as legal boundries arent crossed in the process....
I don't attack.... I don't need to when miscreants are so willing to expose themselves so readily.
As for civil behavior.... Rest assured that my civil responsibility is complete.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I was absolutely not speaking of a sexually aware or physically mature person. Nor was I speaking of anyone anywhere near the age of consent, even in nations where it is 14.
I was and am speaking of a little kid.
Kids do not need sex, especially with adults. Kids may play mothers and milkmen or doctors and nurses and giggle together about stiff little willies and hairless little bodies. That is the province of a child.
Admiring a young teenager is not the same as buggering him against his wishes and the law. One may admire anyone, even Mother Theresa, but that does not mean that one is free to offer them sex.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Quite so, Saben,
Free from abuse not free from experiences.
As both Sylvia's and my teens and twenties were such an unremitting sexual desert (and as both of us, especially Sylvia, suffered from that), when we had teenaged daughters, from the age of 16, we agreed to let them bring their boyfriends home to stay the night in their beds - provided they didn't get pregnant. We also provided condoms. I don't know any other parents who did that in the 1980s. And they did and they both divorced their first partners and have found better and now seem to be settled, each with two children and a caring man. But they aren't half grateful for what we did! They are now 41 and 42 years old!
I think I would have objected if they had formed liaisons with people half or double their age or if they had sexual experience when say under 14 with people say over 18. Please don't tell me I'm old-fashioned!
Love,
Anthony
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Well, Michael,
I'm glad to find that we are on the same wavelength yet again - even to coming close to agreeing with Saben.
I have to say that I find people who agree with me like this (or perhaps I should say that I agree with) are much rarer in real life than on this site.
Now I'm going to get castigated for alleging that this site is unreal!
Ah, well!
Love,
Anthony
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I never crossed the boundaries of law.
A relationship is not illegal.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Yup, it started off being about a 11 and 10 year old. Then, one of my comments spoke about the need to differentiate between pre-pubescent and post-pubsecent kids instead of lumping them all together.
I've never been attracted to a 10 or 11 year old. Nor felt any need to pursue sex with a child that young.
Yet I believe there are cases where pursuing such behaviour would be harmless.
That has been my only point.
I don't think sex itself is innately harmful.
Even for children.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Saben wrote:
> I don't think sex itself is innately harmful.
>
> Even for children.
I'd very much agree with that. But I *do* think that a significant power imbalance *is* innately harmful, and between mature adult and a pre-adolescent I don't see that power imbalances can be avoided. That's why I consider sexual relations between adults and kids to be wrong.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No.....
But grooming for eventual sex is.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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In this case they are in a committed, lawful and long lasting relationship with the younger lad's parents consent as well. Everything was lawful. Like "Keeping it for the wedding night" they waited.
I can't see anything distasteful in this particular case.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Well, it is as real as you make it.
It is not sex per se that is wrong. It is the imbalance of power that makes sex challenging (regardless of the law) between an older and a younger person.
And the thing is, kids should be kids.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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But I *do* think that a significant power imbalance *is* innately harmful, and between mature adult and a pre-adolescent I don't see that power imbalances can be avoided.
I agree, but that has nothing to do with sex 
Look at how many people grow up with their heads fucked because of the power imbalance between them and a teacher; them and parent.
One of Ryan's friends (who is 17) is scared to say "boo" without his mother's permission. He would never even think of disobeying her. She takes out all of her stress on him and he lets her. She's unstable, changes her mind about what he's allowed to do based on his mood and he goes along with it. Last year he was getting Bs in school... So she up and changed his school- he didn't want to, but he didn't protest. Over the last fortnight he's been forced to study for hours, every night. He'd have more freedom in the army. The only act of defiance he engages in is that he masturbates- something he's not "allowed" to do.
That boy will have problems for life because of the power disparity in his relationship with his mother. Next year he turns 18 and plans on moving out of home (if he's allowed...) I seriously think he's going to be fucked because he has no sense of individuality, self-responsibility or standing up for himself.
Yup, power disparities between adults and children can fuck those children up badly.
But has that got to do with sex?
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well, everyone is after all entitled to an opinion....
But the legalities arent for me... or you... to evaluate, there are professionals for that.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Yes, Saben, I agree it has nothing to do with sex.
And Ryan's friend is really in a hard place. I'm sorry to hear it. But the only way he will get out is by realising that he is being badly treated and that he can take charge of his own life and to do that I guess he has to get older and probably talk to other people enough to see how his mother is out of line.
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been able to do that at 17.
Ask him whether, if his mother kept him in a cellar (the way the Austrian kept his daughter), what he would do?
Maybe when he gets old enough to earn his living she will get bored and demand he leaves the nest.
Love,
Anthony
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I know Im stepping into this when I should keep my mouth shut. There was a study done years ago, (I cant remember by who). I do remember that in the study they showed that children who willingly engaged in a relationship with an adult suffered no emotional or mental harm. It did not cause the ones who were str8t to become gay, etc. The harm comes, like Timmy said, when force or coercion is involved. A child who does not desire the contact will be harmed if forced into it.
Some of you know that I discovered that I have a half brother and that I have several nephews and nieces. I have a great nephew who I have taking a liking to (not like that Marc). He is 13 and has Aspengers syndrome. I know Deeej is well aware of this syndrom. This boy is extremely smart and has wormed his way into my heart. He is very small for his age and looks to be about 10. He is very cute and very loving. He is aware that I am gay and he even met my male friend who went to Florida with us. He was not subjected to any display of gay love. Austin knows that I love him and I know he loves me. I know where the boundries are. I guess what Im saying is that an adult can have a relationship with a child and love that child without things becoming sexual. Austin has not started to mature yet, but hopefully in the next year. right now girls are "yuck", but hopefully that will change. If it turns out that he is gay, then he will get all the supposrt he needs, by myself and his parents.
Marc, because someone finds a child cute or attractive does not mean they want sex with them. Beauty should be admired. I think at some point all men have admired another male.
Timmy is also right that things like this should be discussed and brought into the light. I have always believed that knowlege is a powerful weapon. A child that is given knowledge of something is forwarned.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Where did I ever say that a friendly relationship between an adult and kid will result in either wanting sex?
What I did say is that sexual contact between an adult and kid is abhorant.
I also said that to befriend a kid with the intent to eventually have sex with him (as in when he is old enough) is a form of grooming.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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