|
|
Macky
|
 |
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
I get warm cozy feelings when I see elderly gay couples. I watch Barbara Walters', 'The View' and 'Ophra' and both shows have featured elderly gay couples recently. So what makes it possible for some guys to be successful in a lifelong committment, when the fabric of society has no place for them? I tip my hat to any couple on this forum who has managed to do this!
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
|
|
|
Any partnership requires determination and give and take. Look how short lived heterosexual partnerships can be.
[Updated on: Sun, 22 March 2009 15:01]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
This brings up an interresting point. There is no way to study the longevity of gay relationships vs hetero relationships because there are no stats on the number of gay couples, or how long their relationships last. You really can't get a good stat on how many gays there are. I never volunteered that I was gay. I'm sure therebmust be lots more who didnt
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
|
|
|
A point I had not even considered.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Gays are not accorded the benefits of demographic studies. They have a bad rep for long term relationships, but based on what? Opinion? Its just not right. For all that the social sciences know, the chances for long term relationships amoung gays might trump the heteros. If we see fewer old gay couples, perhaps its because gays are a minority. Duh!
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, Macky, I don't know many old gay guys (and even fewer young ones) but the couple I introduced to each other in 1956 are still together and the couple that lived just up the road were together till they died. To my surprise even the married ones seem to have long-lasting relationships. [Married to women, I mean]
And you are right; it would be interesting to know. I fear that the changes in society which have made it so much easier to live a gay life will also greatly have affected our ability to maintain long partnerships.
Only yesterday I heard of an old acquaintance now five years into a civil partnership.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
So good to hear about these successful relationships. Is your observation about married men having special male on male relationships based on conjecture or personal knowledge? I wonder how one can tell the difference between close friendships and love. The lines seem to get blurry. I'm sure there are male on male love relationships that are never consummmated in sex. You know, its a crying shame that old gays generally can't express their relationships publically. The world is losing the wonderful example that a longterm gay partnership can be. I think that young gays need to see that example. Thank god, society seems to be moving in the right direction.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm afraid, Macky, that I didn't express myself clearly. The gay guys I know that are married to women don't also have long-term gay partnerships. In fact nearly all of them that I know of are 'faithful' to their wives.
And, of course, I don't really KNOW. I just believe what people tell me!
Naivety can be a strength in some circumstances!
And there are a few well known old gay guy examples such as Britten-Pears or Christopher Lloyd and his gardener (sorry the name escapes me at the moment).
And, like you, I would be very glad if there were more.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Thanks for the clarify Anthony. I think there's lots of us old faithfully married guys. Wonder what I would do if wife evre told meits ok to have a boyfreiend.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think I’ve said this before but the very few long term gay relationships I know of that are still in existence, are only because of the financial entanglements involved, though I am sure there are still some feeling there for sure.
I know I’ve also said this, but gay relationships have never been tolerated in western society enough for them to develop in any natural way, the strains up until recent time just have not been conducive, I mean look, more than 50% of hetero relationships fail. I would even go so far as to speculate that our gay brothers, here, that are in hetero marriages are the exception rather than the rule, again I have to make the speculation that this too my be because of financial entanglements (No offence meant guys), you all have expressed some love and devotion for your wives, but? Long term relation ships up until the advent of HIV were the more the merrier for any orientation.
Some in my age group and a bit younger try but I still see little success. I think any hope of long termers lay with they younger guys if it’s going to happen like that.
Still despite HIV I am not sure trying to be “hetero” is or can be the norm for the “gay community” I think it could be even more dynamic if we wanted it to be.
Let us define our selves rather than become caricatures of others ideology.
Sorry for the dissertation, but I find it all too easy to go on and on about this subject
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
arich wrote:
> I think I’ve said this before but the very few long term gay relationships I know of that are still in existence, are only because of the financial entanglements involved, though I am sure there are still some feeling there for sure.
My experience is a bit different. While I *do* know plenty of gay relationships that have "only" lasted ten or twelve years (including my own), I do also know some guys who are in lifelong partnerships. One couple in particular I know have been together since at least 1967 ... and are clearly still devoted to each other.
I have every hope that as gay relationships become more recognised in law the social pressures that have in the past been a real barrier will be diminished. I don't see much reason to suppose that the separation rate among those who have become Civil Partnered will in the long term be significantly different from those who are heterosexually married.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I know, Macky! You would keep on the lookout for one and if you struck lucky you would get one.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Its a nice thought Anthony. I don't see how she could be jealous, if I drug home another busted down old coot like myself. Now if I just had the balls to tell her I'm gay. It just seems I need to be myself anymore, and the first one I have to be myself with is the lady I couldn't live without. That sounds crazy, doesn't it? Thanks to Timmy for creating a forum where I can say I can't live without my woman, but I long for a relationship with a guy..
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, Macky, I think I'd find your position awkward too. I'm not sure whether you know that I told Sylvia all about my gay experiences before we got engaged.
I think if I hadn't done that I'd have found it much harder to be honest about lots of other things. And maybe I wouldn't have been able to stay faithful - or maybe not have wanted to enough.
As it was I was able to take her to dinner with my first real lover and his wife knowing she knew all about it. That was sometime in the 1980s - we were lovers in 1953-55 and on a very few odd occasions up to 1961. Amazingly, Peter's wife was jealous enough of us to ensure we weren't left alone together!
And I never saw him again. He was showing signs of narcolepsy and I don't remember the exact date but sometime since we moved to Bristol he died and his wife, Beryl, sent us a card.
I miss him - even though he used to go to his Roman Catholic Church every Sunday and confess me as a sin! He even had the gall to introduce me to his confessor-priest!
Love,
Anthony
[Updated on: Mon, 23 March 2009 21:37] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Beautiful stories NW. You should be proud of the length of your relationbship. Before I married I was actively gay for 9 years or so. I had an off and on relationship with a wonderful guy for most of that period. I wanted to move in with him and make it more permanent and exclusive, but, sadly, he could not hack it. So I found permanence and exclusvity in what, for me, is an unnatural relationship. It is working. I have a son. I'm happy but always looking for more.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Is your definition of 'more dynamic hetero' having having a boyfriend on the side?
'Define ourselves'. Yeah. I like that. I'm not gay, I married a woman I love. But I'm not bi or straight because I'm only sexually attracted to men. I must just be a 'Macky'. Only one of those.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky wrote:
I'm not gay, I married a woman I love. But I'm not bi or straight because I'm only sexually attracted to men. I must just be a 'Macky'. Only one of those.
Yes, there's only one Macky; but I know another guy who answers the same description and is in the same situation! I suspect that there are a lot more around here who answer that description, Macky, so don't think you are unique in that department! 
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
|
|
|
Isn't it odd how some folk don't like to understand that we can be gay as an Easter parade, but be married to a lady that we also love?
On another forum, back in the nineties, I was treated with contempt over it. In many ways that's why I founded this one
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Isn’t love unbound by orientation, what really bothers me is how bound by undue social constraints we seem to have. Based on things I can’t see, but then I have always been a bit radical, some might say a little too unbound! ha-ha I love it. ::-) 
[Updated on: Tue, 24 March 2009 17:34]
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
By unbound, do you mean lack of commitment? Does the social contract help commitment? I guess I don't think much of the marriage thing. The promise that I made to my wife, on the other hand, is all-important.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
|
|
|
Love has never respected orientation. But love is not always a desire also for sex.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Hey Timmy, Do you know of any books that go into this. I'd like more material for when I finally do try to explain myself to my wife.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dear Macky, I have recently been reading "The Ethics of Sexual Acts" by René Guyon first published in French in 1930 and in English in 1934 by Alfred A Knopf. I am amazed how enlightened his views are considering the atmosphere of the time.
I think you would need to go to Kinsey and Masters for evidence about the way people actually behave, which is more what I think you were asking Timmy for.
Love,
Anthony
[Updated on: Tue, 24 March 2009 22:49] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
|
|
|
Only your heart.
But think deeply. Many men love each other, yet do not desire each other. Also many women. And there are many men who love women without desiring them and vice versa.
Love has little to do with orientation. Sex has much to do with it
[Updated on: Wed, 25 March 2009 11:47]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What Timmy said. LOL at 19:03
[Updated on: Wed, 25 March 2009 13:39]
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
|
|
|
|
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
